What's the difference between dragging and trolling?

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:48 pm

All tournaments have rules against trolling but I know for a fact that a lot of guys drag football head jigs and caroline rigs under the boat while using using the trolling motor to move the boat.
Can someone explain to me what the difference is and where we should draw the line.
If it's ok to drag a jig, is it ok to drag a Huddleston?

Thanks for the input,
James

fishnfool · Post by **fishnfool** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:52 pm

Great question. I've wondered this myself since almost every pro I have fished with has done this. Will be interesting to see the responses on this one!

scott h · Post by **scott h** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:19 pm

This is a question of great contravercy there have simiular posts in the past but my .02 is wind would be the difference, I would think if you were using the trolling motor that would be trolling. I fished as a non-boater for two years and several boaters would drag with the trolling motor and others would drift over a spot in the wind I for one would like to see a more defined rule on this to eliminate the confusion

sdisturber · Post by **sdisturber** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:35 pm

usually when dragging a bait you are on and off the trolling motor when the wind is not blowing and using the motor to correct your drift when the wind is blowing.to consider this trolling i would think you would be under constant motion from the trolling motor.

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:11 pm

I have always been told, by various TD's and other people that have been around tournaments that if you are useing your electric/trolling motor either on and off or steady, that is dragging, etc. But if you use the big engine/power then you are trolling and that is against the rules on most every tournament. Bill K

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:34 pm

So Bill, then you would agree that per the TD's I could put my 101lb thrust trolling motor on high, drop my huddleston to the bottom and "drag" it around all day.
James

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:34 pm

First, here is the Webster Dictionary definition cut and pasted:

troll
One entry found for troll.

Main Entry: 1troll
Pronunciation: 'trOl
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English
transitive senses
1 : to cause to move round and round : ROLL
2 a : to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession b : to sing loudly c : to celebrate in song
3 a : to fish for by trolling b : to fish by trolling in <troll lakes> c : to pull through the water in trolling <troll a lure>
intransitive senses
1 : to move around : RAMBLE
2 : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat
3 : to sing or play in a jovial manner
4 : to speak rapidly
- trollÂ·er noun

Most tournaments have a rule forbidding "trolling" yet few define it. Consequently us competitors are left to interpret their intent. I think this is a disservice to the sport. I always handle this by asking the TD prior to the event how they define trolling. Some tournament directors make it a point to specify during the driver's meeting whether they allow dragging (pulling the lure with your electric) or drifting (pulling your lure by wind or current).

One circuit up here strictly forbids dragging a bait with your electric as it is trolling, but another specifically allows dragging and specifies so in their rules. I have no problem with either circuit because their intent is clearly defined and enforced and is consistent for all.

I hate to fish circuits that don't specify this, as some anglers refuse to drag since it is technically against the stated rules and don't want to get disqualified, and others in the same tourney will engage in this technique because the rule is vague and they know they can get away with it. Some anglers believe that if you call trolling by a different name, it is no longer "trolling".

This single issue has caused more anger in tourneys than any other I have witnessed; and it is a problem all over the country but particularly in clear, deep reservoirs like those in the west.

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:01 pm

OK, I think I understand, if you "troll" using your "trolling" motor, it is really dragging, but if you drag your bait using your gas motor, then you are trolling..Yep, that makes sense, just not to me..

mac

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:12 pm

This topic comes up every few years on here.... but hey it's like tournament paybacks, why not go over it again

During my very short career as a non-boater, almost all of my boaters did this little thing where they would toss a c-rig behind the boat, put the trolling motor on a low speed and drag. I was actually instructed by one pro that I shouldn't move my rod tip while we fished like this, which rather surprised me since I was a noob and had just read all of the rules for that particular tournament and figured that was totally against the rules. Go figure huh.

The way I see it, if your line is behind the boat and you're on the trolling motor to move your bait, you're trolling. If you stop and go a little bit, so what, you're still trolling. If you cast behind the boat and work your bait back, you know like using the reel, then that's not trolling.

If it were tournament legal to cast your bait behind the boat and use the trolling motor like that, eh..... I know of quite a few tournaments I could win because quite frankly trolling thing like crankbaits and swimbaits works really well on the right conditions.

You made a comment about huddlestons, and it reminded me... I heard this little rumor a few months ago that CV and I were trolling to win those tourneys at Don Pedro, which on the one hand made me laugh because it's completely untrue but on the other hand, any time you hear something like that it certainly gets your hackles up. So I have to tell you, I'm one of the few tournament fishermen out there who also trolls, and if the person who started that rumor had trolled Don Pedro themselves, they would have realized it couldn't be true because that lake sucks for trolling. And if they'd ever trolled a hudd, they'd realize it's a lousy trolling bait... and plus, if you've ever fished with my partner Cris, you'd know that trolling would agitate the hell out of him and he'd get too bored and probably toss me of the boat, and I'd show up soaking wet at weigh ins.

But seriously, trolling is cheating and there's a reason it's against the rules. If I saw someone doing it blatantly with a crankbait or a swimbait, I'd protest. If they were dragging c-rigs, I probably wouldn't give a crap because that's a totally low percentage way to fish if you're trying to win tournaments.

-Rob

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:25 am

That is what I have come to believe or been told. If you have any doubt at any given tournament, I would ask the TD at the sign in/check in when the rules ares given out and follow that direction for that tournament. Seems fairly simple to me. Some might say
no problem, some might say no way, I have just never heard no way, as I described. Bill K

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:58 am

If the angler is imparting action to the bait with the rod and making slight course corrections with the electric motor, then it is "strolling" which is legal in my eyes. However, if that same angler is simply driving around with the electric and a lure dragging behind the boat like someone trolling for trout or something, then I would say that he is not legal. This rule is so difficult to enforce and it comes down to all of us policing ourselves within our own boat. The intent of the rule was to get rid of the downriggers and flatliners that commonly troll back anywhere from 25-50 yds. behind the boat. My dad and I used to troll Folsom when I was a kid and commonly take 12-15 lbs. of Bass home to eat. I think that what most bass torunament anglers do cannot be considered trolling as we are not using the big motor and we are not long lining baits out there. See ya all Sunday.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:29 am

I've always assumed dragging is maintaining constant contact with the bottom and trolling is when your bait is free swimming in open water with the aid of a motor.

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:38 am

I was at the first BASS Invitation anglers meeting and this question came up...

BASS stated that they recoginized that Western anglers, were concerned with the defination of Trolling, so they went out with several local anglers to observe the western practice as we do it...

It was decided that what we do is defined as "strolling" and would permitted under their rules...as long as the big motor was not used... and they bait was on the bottom....the use of crankbaits, ripbaits or anyother bait "not" in contact with the bottom would be considered "trolling" and illegal..

Just my .02

JT-Madera

JB · Post by JB » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:15 am

My follow up question to what's the difference would be: Who cares

I think that the tournaments should just plain allow trolling, then there is no grey area on the matter

What is the reasoning for not allowing trolling? Trolling is just another technique for catching fish, sometimes it is the best technique for the situation and other times it is not! It is not like if you allow trolling, all other techniques will become obsolete. Just look at professional walleye tournaments. Trolling is allowed there, but there are times when it shines, and times when it doesn't.

On a side note, I have the same beliefs with live bait.

But I don't want to get stoned to death for my live bait feelings. For now I'll stick to the trolling question.

ash · Post by **ash** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:31 pm

Here is how the rule reads in:

Won Bass
Trolling, (the act of manipulating the lure solely by maneuvering the boat under any type of power) is prohibited.

FLW rules
Trolling as a method of fishing is prohibited.

BASS rules
I tried to read all 10 pages, I browsed the proper locations and could not find a rule for or against trolling.

It seems that WON spells it out the best and if you really want to troll the Hud start fishin BASS as a pro!
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bass ... l_rules_04

Sacto John · Post by **Sacto John** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:47 pm

Under #8 in the BASS rules it reads:

"However, trolling as a method of fishing is prohibited. "

MN · Post by MN » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:30 pm

HHHHHHMMMMMMM then why did it get the name trolling motor.With the power of some of these larger electric motor's what's the differance between that and the gas motor.
Isnt moving your boat either with the TROLLING motor or gas the same

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:50 pm

Tournaments all have on thing in common...no live bait. Why? Because, the real test of angling skill is who can locate fish and catch them best by making an ARTIFICIAL bait behave like the real thing. Twitch it, rip it, dead stick it, slow roll it, pop it, crank it, drag it, burn it, yoyo it....all these terms describe fishing methods designed to stimulate a bass to bite. All these techniques require knowledge and skill. Even dragging a worm slowly on the bottom requires adjustments based on bottom composition, contour changes and working through various kinds of snags. In addition, dragging requires the ability to distinguish pressure bites from normal bottom resistance. In all the cases above, bait-working angling skills come into play.

In trolling, the angler simply aims the boat and lets the boat's movement impart 100% of the action to the lure. Yes, trollers may make course adjustments or change the depth of the troll but, for the most part, trolling involves NO bait-working effort. Trolling rods are often not even in the angler's hands as they leave the rods in rod holders until a fish strikes.

"Strolling" is not "trolling" because the rod is constantly worked by the anglers....EVEN if the electric trolling motor is dong the majority of the horizontal movement. Every time that weight hits a rock, tree limb or other bottom obstruction, the angler has to work it over the object. Every time the weight picks up some weeds, the angler is forced to assess the "pressure" and take some kind of action....clear the weeds with a quick pop of the rod tip or do a sweep hook set. So, "strolling" continues to involve the constant direct effort of the angler to manipulate the bait....hence, its not trolling.

Just my $.02

.....NaCl

By the way, each time the angler pops the bait over an obstruction in "strolling", the plastic worm, jig or other bait reacts with great fish catching action.

Nico · Post by **Nico** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:19 pm

NaCl, if you're suggesting that trolling is easier than "regular" fishing, you haven't trolled very much. On the very rare occasion it can be more effective, but it's a hell of a lot more difficult method of fishing.

It's just as important to bounce the crankbait off the top of the 20 ft deep rockpile, just now you have to do it with 200+ feet of line out steering with a boat, not just casting right on top of it. You didn't catch that fish because you twitched the crankbait enticingly during the retrieve, you caught the fish because you hit the right rock at the right depth at the right speed. And that's waaaay easier to do casting.

Colebass · Post by **Colebass** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:33 pm

having been raised by a Kokanee fishermen, there is a science to trolling as well. Nico, I don't think Dean was saying it was easier, just different. Many trout and kokanee fishermen aften catch big bass by accident. And now that swimbaits have come where they are, we are seeing more folks troll for Big Bass, but that is something different than fishing in a tournament and "strolling". Many folks get hung up on using the trolling motor and dragging your bait as breaking the rules and I think Dean was making an arguement that it's not. Is that right Dean?

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:16 pm

If I throw a 50 foot cast in 30 feet of water I theoretically can work 20 feet of the bottom on each cast. If I throw a 50 foot cast in 30 feet of water, I can stroll, troll, drag or whatever you want to call it to make yourself feel better forever in depths up to about 45 feet without ever needing to retrieve the bait.

When I see guys fishing jigs straight out behind the boat pulling them upwind, whether with the electric TROLLING MOTOR or the gas motor I think it should be called trolling and not be allowed. Moving the rod doesn't make it not trolling and neither does being off and on the power. If you're using any of the boats propulsion equipment to move the bait, you're trolling

Just my .02

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:21 pm

HAR HAR! Just kidding!

Nico - I did not say trolling is easy. And, the vast majority of "trollers" are NOT carefully bouncing crankbaits off rock piles 200 feet behind the boat. Most freshwater "trollers" drag some kind of bait behind the boat trying to keep it at the thermocline or close to the surface if the baitfish are shallow. The discipline includes numerous tools to accomplish the task, including downriggers, lead line and planing boards. I consider trolling to be a distinct science with lots of variables. But, the theme is generally the same...the action of the lure is principally caused by the boat's engine with very little action imparted by direct handling of the rod. That's my point. And, trolling is inconsistent with tournament philosophy of challenging the anglers' skills at manipulating a bait.

Dave - you are correct. I am making a case that draggin, even with the use of the trolling motor is NOT trolling. The principal reason is that the bait is in constant contact with the bottom and it requires constant adjustment by an angler who is holding the rod and "feeling" the line.

The most important issue in this thread is not what you or I think. It's what a tournament director thinks. That's why its is necessary to ask each TD for his opinion before the event if you think you might be using that method to fish. If the TD says strolling is not legal, then you simply adjust by using the wind to create boat movement instead of the trolling motor. Then, its legal because no bait movement resulted from the use of a motor. If the TD says strolling is okay, then no problem. Point is....ASK!

.....NaCl

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:24 pm

bryanmc,
I totally agree. Jigging the rod a little or shaking off some weeds while using the trolling motor to move your bait is trolling in my book.

There was a comment above in favor of allowing trolling. That would be pretty funny. I know a certain lure maker who lives in Bishop who would lay a whupping on tournament fishing like no one has ever seen if trolling was allowed. You guys don't want that, trust me.

Colebass · Post by **Colebass** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:46 pm

Trollers are pussies!

Nico · Post by **Nico** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:02 pm

So if the skill required is not important, what's so special about using your hands to move a bait as opposed to using the trolling motor? You still have to make the lure look alive, even with a trolling motor. From a theoretical standpoint. And shouldn't deadsticking senkos be outlawed, too? I'm sure no one has ever done that before in a tournament.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:18 pm

Nico

We can have a semantics debate all day long and it doesn't change a thing. Each tournament director is responsible to interpret the rules. It is smart for those who fish tournaments to know the rules AS determined by the TD.

.....NaCl

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:21 pm

...asking an inflammatory question on an internet forum that causes normally sane people to argue; just to have fun watching the fireworks.

BTW, "trolling" was outlawed by BASS since their first tournament as it was explained to me because they wanted to make tournament fishing a sport, and they felt the best way to do that was to insist on cast and retrieve methods. Remember, back in the late 1960's we didn't have the quality of boats, reels, rods, electronics, lures...etc. and we sure didn't have downriggers either. There was also an enforcement issue in addition to the sportsmanship issue...by requiring casting and retrieving it was harder for guys to cheat and use bait; unlike trolling where observing anglers would have no idea what is tied onto a trollers line because they only bring them in when it is time to unhook a bass.

EGBASS · Post by **EGBASS** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:35 pm

I'm of the mind that dragging with bottom contact etc isn't trolling or at least doesn't violate the spirit of the rule. Afterall, boaters are expected to maneuver the boat with the trolling motor, as far as I remember boaters are not allowed to anchor which would make it easier to cast and retrieve something on the bottom while staying on that ledge and without worrying about drifting into something (ok, I'm a newby when it comes to boating)

BUT Swimbait does make a good point about the guy from Bishop. My understanding is when he's trolling certain types of his swimbaits, he is in constant contact with the bottom. All he would have to do is make sure he is holding his rod and when he hangs up some he could lift the rod a bit to manipulate and/or impart action the swimbait to free it from the bottom and instead of trolling he would be dragging (ok to be honest he may be using downriggers to cover the depths he chooses to fish, I really have no idea how deep his billed swimbaits can dive with 100 or 200 feet of line out.)

To Dean's point, if I ever fish beyond the club level tournaments, I'll make sure to ask the TD. I know I've heard many anglers that fish the bigger circuits talk about dragging jigs or worms.

Barry Stanley · Post by **Barry Stanley** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:47 pm

This is my first time on this forum so I hope I don't step in it. I am an Anglers Choice director from New Mexico and this topic was the most heated of all rules here. I contacted AC, BASS, and FLW for their interpertation and this is what I use here. It isn't perfect and not everyone likes it but at least it takes most of the gray out of the rule the best I could.

Clarification of the trolling rule.
â€œTrolling with the aid of combustion or electric motors is not permitted.â€

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:53 pm

Barry, you aren't stepping in anything. You have carefully considered the situation, and clarified your intent.

If an angler has a problem with the rule, they should either live with it, or fish another tourney. The important thing is that everyone will be on the same sheet of music, and treated equally.

If I was in your area, I would fish your tourneys.

millsryno · Post by **millsryno** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:21 am

I really don't have a position either way, but, just thinking about it...

If the wind pushes your boat and you fish behind it with a C-Rig or whatever, you are just adjusting to the conditions. A smart angler will adjust to the conditions he is fishing in. I have fished at times when the wind pushes my boat slowly, almost perfectly along a shoreline. In this situation it takes just as much skill to work the bait as if I were casting and retrieving. I may need to use the trolling motor to reposition my boat every so often if the shorline turns or something, but I would have never felt guilty about because I were "trolling".

I guess my definition of trolling would be: "The use of a combustion engine or trolling motor to aid in the action of any given lure"

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