Lake Mead death

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:15 am

A friend just sent me this:

http://kramergonefishing.com/2015/08/17 ... more-24388

Robb R · Post by **Robb R** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:30 am

very sad for his family . To this day , I have never understood somebodies reluctance to not wear a PFD when the big motor is running --and to not have the kill switch connected . Some of the pro's I see in TV have a PFD on even when the big motor isn't running . Additionally , I don't understand the comment by the writer about how the outcome might not have been any different if he was wearing a PFD at that rate of speed ? He was most likely was knocked out by impacting the boat and/or the water when the steering mechanism failed ---then drowned . Had he been wearing his PFD properly with the kill switch engaged , he would have most likely had a few broken bones and a very scary experience , but he would have survived . I would be curious to know from others on this website if they have ever been "launched" from a boat at a high rate of speed and what was the outcome .
Also , opinions on various types of PFD's ? I have several older Cabela's PFD's that are supposed to inflate once they make contact with water .
I have had to replace the activating mechanism on these units , but they seem in good working order ? I know that a guy was killed in the delta last year when his PFD didn't inflate ? Any thoughts ?
Lastly , boating is not a joke , two weeks ago up at Lake Anderson in Morgan Hill , a young man was killed on a wake board boat when he feel off the front of the boat and was run over by the prop ---- .
tight lines ,
Robb

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:11 am

Mechanical devices fail. Safeties are not safe. I wear a non inflatable after having issues in the past. My theory is wear a safety device that you think is worthy of what it is protecting.

Robb R wrote:very sad for his family . To this day , I have never understood somebodies reluctance to not wear a PFD when the big motor is running --and to not have the kill switch connected . Some of the pro's I see in TV have a PFD on even when the big motor isn't running . Additionally , I don't understand the comment by the writer about how the outcome might not have been any different if he was wearing a PFD at that rate of speed ? He was most likely was knocked out by impacting the boat and/or the water when the steering mechanism failed ---then drowned . Had he been wearing his PFD properly with the kill switch engaged , he would have most likely had a few broken bones and a very scary experience , but he would have survived . I would be curious to know from others on this website if they have ever been "launched" from a boat at a high rate of speed and what was the outcome .
Also , opinions on various types of PFD's ? I have several older Cabela's PFD's that are supposed to inflate once they make contact with water .
I have had to replace the activating mechanism on these units , but they seem in good working order ? I know that a guy was killed in the delta last year when his PFD didn't inflate ? Any thoughts ?
Lastly , boating is not a joke , two weeks ago up at Lake Anderson in Morgan Hill , a young man was killed on a wake board boat when he feel off the front of the boat and was run over by the prop ---- .
tight lines ,
Robb

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:00 pm

First, my condolences to the Schafer family. This is a very sad story.

To Robb R. Since you asked...in 2006 I was ejected at high speed from a bass boat and my suspender style PFD saved my life. The outcome has been 11 surgeries to elbows, shoulders and rib/s and I can probably no longer compete at the pro level...although I have not completely given up. There are more surgeries in my future too. My life will never be the same. But I am doing the best I can under the circumstances.

At that speed, my body flailed like a rag doll as I tumbled across the surface and nearly every joint in my body took a beating. Things happen when you least expect it and I cringe when I see my fellow angling brethren running around the lake with no PFD on. Some even do this on video which is pretty dumb if you ask me. I've even seen a guy with a very young child on his lap who was steering the boat bass boat at what appeared to be high speed. The child had a PFD but the father did not. I won't go into how stupid this behavior is. It's obvious.

I don't care how good of a swimmer you are...when you hit the water at high speed you probably won't be able to swim for very long if at all. I recommend a full vest PFD if you want to have the best chances of survival and less possibility of broken ribs etc if you were to hit something on the way out of the boat.

By the way, I am a past spokesman for the CA Dept. of Boating and Waterways for the "Wear-it California" campaign for a good reason. It saved my life.

fishwithron2 · Post by **fishwithron2** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:49 pm

Even tho those auto life jackets suppose to work on contact with the water, your betting your life that it would work and if it don't who's the loser ??? The manual one you have to pull to inflate won't do you any good if toss over and your unconscious. Know those auto are more comfortable than the reg pfd but I know the one I have on will work every time. Also the reg PFD has padding all around your upper body you so at least you'll have some protection around your upper body and back while the SOS covers part of your front body and nothing in the back.

Robb R · Post by **Robb R** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:28 pm

Caudawg ,
Your story is exactly what scares me to death . My boat doesn't run more than 40MPH , but even at that speed it's enough to create problems if ejected . My PFD 's are the sospender type that have a chemical plug that dissolves in water . I have had them "expire " and go off in the boat because I didn't replace the as frequently are recommended. They appear to inflate instantly and hold air , but like Fishwithron says ---worth the risk ?
I am curious how and why you had the accident ---was it a mechanical failure as the Lake Mead accident ? I always a little paranoid about maintaining my boat and trying to stay ahead of potential problems , especially the critical ones .
Robb

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:08 am

Very sad story that could have ended differently and a reminder to always wear your PFD when running at plane speed. My PFD's are stowed, only wear them in the winter or on big lakes, rough water, or if mandated, a bad habit. I do clip on the kill switch lanyard, that's a good habit!
Gary Dobyn's was ejected from his boat on the delta a few years ago, it just takes an instant to make a mistake when running a boat at speed. We all know how important it is to wear the PFD, we don't always do it.
My prayers go out to the Schafer Family for their loss.
Tom

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:09 pm

I would like to again raise the question: which is worse and which causes less injury> being ejected or having a SEAT BELT for Bass Boats. I would think the seat belt would be the better option as I hear more of being ejected than turned over. Even without a shoulder belt, I'm still in favor of the belt. You still would need a PFD, but I think your injuries would be much less than cartwheeling across the water breaking and dislocating bones. In both cases above, each of these guys would still have sustained far less ( like Death ) . Anybody else feel this way ?

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:32 am

Mitch wrote:I would like to again raise the question: which is worse and which causes less injury> being ejected or having a SEAT BELT for Bass Boats. I would think the seat belt would be the better option as I hear more of being ejected than turned over. Even without a shoulder belt, I'm still in favor of the belt. You still would need a PFD, but I think your injuries would be much less than cartwheeling across the water breaking and dislocating bones. In both cases above, each of these guys would still have sustained far less ( like Death ) . Anybody else feel this way ?

It's a question that's right up there with "Why don't school buses have seat belts?". The tour buses in Europe have them, so I know it's an available technology.
It seems like someone would have come up with a seat belt with some kind of automatic release, so the threat of being stuck in a sinking or overturned boat is gone.
I use a BPS auto inflate PFD that's 10 years old and have the water-submersion trigger. I've had them blow up in the storage compartment when water got into it, so I know they work. The CO2 cartridges don't leak, so the only thing that might go wrong is the pellet not dissolving, and releasing the spring loaded trigger.
I didn't wear mine except in tournaments when I was down in SoCal, but, since I moved to NoCal, I wear mine, with the kill switch attached, anytime I have the big motor on. It's too easy for something to happen when I'm winding through the Delta, and there are so many other boats traveling at high speeds around blind turns.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:47 am

Living in California where we are already over regulated it's difficult to suggest more regulations, even when safety is the topic. We don't have a boating drivers license program for our inland waterways, no boating safety classes are needed to operate a powerboat. How many unskilled boat operators are sharing the waterways and driving over 50 mph.....thousands!
Boats traveling over 50 mph the danger of a fatal accident is high, however most boats don't have hot foot throttle control, the driver operates the boat steering with one hand and controlling speed and trim with the other hand is a accident waiting to happen.
Tom

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:11 pm

Oldschool wrote:Living in California where we are already over regulated it's difficult to suggest more regulations, even when safety is the topic. We don't have a boating drivers license program for our inland waterways, no boating safety classes are needed to operate a powerboat. How many unskilled boat operators are sharing the waterways and driving over 50 mph.....thousands!
Boats traveling over 50 mph the danger of a fatal accident is high, however most boats don't have hot foot throttle control, the driver operates the boat steering with one hand and controlling speed and trim with the other hand is a accident waiting to happen.
Tom

You're right, there should be an operator's license, like a driver's license. I don't understand how insurance companies are willing to insure boats driven by unqualified people. And there are no brakes, so a bad decision, or a lapse in attention, can be fatal for someone.
I had to dodge a pleasure boater today who started to take the left hand fork, and then changed his mind mid turn, and wound up coming right at me. Fortunately, I was watching him the whole way, had reduced my speed, and was able to make a hard right and avoid him. If I hadn't been paying attention, we would have met head-on. And he blew by me like I wasn't even there. People on the bank were just shaking their heads.
It may be a small percentage who are idiots, but a license requirement before you can register a boat, and operate one, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
If you can operate a boat safely and already know the rules of the road, it's no big deal. If you can't, and don't, you shouldn't be driving a boat in the first place.
And where are the parents of the teens I see hot rodding $100,000 boats that their parents had to have bought? Don't they feel any sort of parental obligation to make sure their kid knows how to drive a boat safely before they let them behind the wheel? They sure as heck wouldn't let them drive the family car without a license.

Robb R · Post by **Robb R** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Mark ,
to your point ,
I fish Calero in South San Jose most of the time locally . It's a very small lake and the maximum number of boaters allowed is 40 on any given day.
With 40 boats , this small lake becomes a zoo and almost impossible to fish . Last summer , a guy pulls up with a $70K Master Craft boat loaded with teenage boys . None of these boys were old enough to drive a car . The dad asks the entry station lady if it would be OK to "drop" off his boat load of teenagers with the boat ---but none of them there were 16 years of age and he wasn't sure if it was allowed to let these boys drive a loaded wake board boat without him there all day ????? What type of father does this ??? These idiot boys spent most of the day driving around in the wrong direction , to close to other boaters , in and out of the 5mph at full throttle and not a care in the world . Did the dad know this ? Let's add some booze to this group in a few years and what do you have ? Multiply that X 10 other idiots and walla , you have a dead boater scenario .
How about this , when a "new" boater arrives at a local lake , give them a quick written test ---maybe top ten questions of boating and if they can't answer them all correctly --- no launch , no refund of your launch fee and your then directed to take a test and prove you have passed basic boating before any additional boating privileges ?
Eliminate the idiots and azzholes and most of the problems go away .
Robb

Otay Michael · Post by **Otay Michael** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:57 am

Just read on Kramer (catching up on his good reads) where they had found this gentleman's body in 240' of water, what a miracle in itself it seems. Did a search on WB as I did not remember reading about it over here, and then remember this discussion after re-reading it.

This helps to remind me to connect the kill switch every time I make a run, short or long, as sometimes it's easy to forget when you just going to run and gun a few hundreds yards to the next honey hole. When solo, I always wear my inflatable, 100% of the time, whether in the Skeeter or the alum. boat, you never know the future; someone running you over, fainting for some reason, etc.. Condolences to the Schafer family, and his friends. Sounds like there were many.

Oh, the reason I think the inflatable PFD devices are cool, is that once you put them on you don't know they are there, which is why a lot of us wear them. The other style are bulky, and would be more likely not worn for that reason, at least by me. I'd rather have on something that works 95% of the time, than nothing at all if that once in a hundred lifetimes accident happens to me.

The kill switch should be a no-brainer, 100% of the time. Who wants to be run over by their own boat, if it killed you you'd never forgive yourself!!! ;/)

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:45 am

I wear an inflatable, and, frankly, hate how I struggle to get in on again each time I move.
So I put a quick clip on my lanyard, so I can keep it on when I reach a new spot.
You can use almost anything as a quick clip, just as long as it's easy to open and closes automatically. It doesn't have to be super load rated. We all know how easily the lanyard trips the kill switch.