In the end I didn't get hosed

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:24 pm

Working with the Jay Rowan over at F&G, he found a permit I had paid for, but hadn't used. Jay applied those fees over to a another permit and wallah..I got covered.

The intent of my post was to voice my frustration with the process, not at the guys I have worked with over the years at F&G. Kyle Murphy, Ken Kedarke and Jay have always been awesome to work with and have always gone out of their way to work with me. It was the bureacracy of this state that just drives me nuts and that was where my frustration was aimed.

Scott Shambre

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:37 pm

I guess this is a lesson to everyone wanting to organize a turkey shoot. Just call them "Get togethers" and discuss the details in private.

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:28 pm

That's great Scott!

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:32 pm

Im not shocked.
If they were only out on the water to see the bucket grabers I see every weekend!

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:01 pm

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:01 pm

MIKE TREMONT wrote:I like that the DFG is being proactive and it seems as if they are trying to protect the resources.

Seems more like an attempt to extort revenue. Most turkey shoots don't fall under the criteria requiring someone to fork over fees or apply for a fishing contest permit...

The excerpt below is from DFG Informational Leaflet No. 41: Instructions for Obtaining Permits to Offer Prizes for Taking Game Fish in Fishing Contests

How to Obtain Permits
You must obtain either of two types of permits to conduct a fishing contest in which anglers take a game fish species: (1) an Event Permit for each contest where either the number of participants exceeds 50 or the total of all prizes and inducements exceeds $1,000 or (2) an Annual Permit for contests conducted by a single sponsor where, on each occasion, the number of participants does not exceed 50 and the total value of all prizes and inducements does not exceed $1,000. Apply for either type of permit on Form 775. Forms are available from the Department's regional offices. Fill out the application completely and sign it. You must submit Event Permit applications and the required fee (check or money order payable to the Department of Fish and Game) to the Department's regional office in whose region the contest will (or primarily) be held. Applications for Annual Permits and the required fee may be submitted to any of the six regional offices or to the address on this leaflet.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:09 pm

Rules are rules, fees are fees. Ya wanna play, we gotta pay, it's a theme we all know too well. Like a bass targeting down on a big fat red craw, you was too easy a target ta pass up Scott!

Chris B. · Post by **Chris B.** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:44 pm

Scott, I agree it's ridiculous to charge a fee for this kind of event.

But hey, okay, they want your money. So do ya think in return they could put the plug back in the Folsom Lake drain for a few days? Seems a fair trade...

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:30 pm

I can see it now. The state of Kalifornia and IRS wanting a share/fee for the bets on ball games, etc around the office. All of the state agencies are getting so short of money, due to mis=managment they are pulling all stops and checking every venue they can to get money. Real chickenshit in my book. But that is the way they are now days. (opps I just posted, last week, that I was not going to post political items) I goofed. Bill K

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:35 pm

It's hard not too!

Marty

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:44 pm

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:48 pm

sorry to hear about ur hose job. what many dont understand is that is easier for them to get the honest guys to pay, than to go out, do their job and get the unlicensed fisherman/ poachers etc. That's because is takes less effort, less paper work and less court time and you will pay.

just my .02 cents worth

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:23 pm

fish_food wrote:
MIKE TREMONT wrote:I like that the DFG is being proactive and it seems as if they are trying to protect the resources.
Seems more like an attempt to extort revenue. Most turkey shoots don't fall under the criteria requiring someone to fork over fees or apply for a fishing contest permit...

The excerpt below is from DFG Informational Leaflet No. 41: Instructions for Obtaining Permits to Offer Prizes for Taking Game Fish in Fishing Contests

How to Obtain Permits
You must obtain either of two types of permits to conduct a fishing contest in which anglers take a game fish species: (1) an Event Permit for each contest where either the number of participants exceeds 50 or the total of all prizes and inducements exceeds $1,000 or (2) an Annual Permit for contests conducted by a single sponsor where, on each occasion, the number of participants does not exceed 50 and the total value of all prizes and inducements does not exceed $1,000. Apply for either type of permit on Form 775. Forms are available from the Department's regional offices. Fill out the application completely and sign it. You must submit Event Permit applications and the required fee (check or money order payable to the Department of Fish and Game) to the Department's regional office in whose region the contest will (or primarily) be held. Applications for Annual Permits and the required fee may be submitted to any of the six regional offices or to the address on this leaflet.

Turkey Shoots fall under #2 in the paragraph above. You can obtain one permit for multiple events.

You need to specify each date and location on the permit.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:45 pm

Bill K wrote:I can see it now. The state of Kalifornia and IRS wanting a share/fee for the bets on ball games, etc around the office. All of the state agencies are getting so short of money, due to mis=managment they are pulling all stops and checking every venue they can to get money. Real chickenshit in my book. But that is the way they are now days. (opps I just posted, last week, that I was not going to post political items) I goofed. Bill K

agreed!

kylebass91 · Post by **kylebass91** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:20 pm

I dont think anyones "Sponsoring" that event lol

Glenn wrote:
fish_food wrote:
MIKE TREMONT wrote:I like that the DFG is being proactive and it seems as if they are trying to protect the resources.

How to Obtain Permits
(2) an Annual Permit for contests conducted by a single sponsor where, on each occasion, the number of participants does not exceed 50 and the total value of all prizes and inducements does not exceed $1,000. Apply for either type of permit on Form 775. Forms are available from the Department's regional offices. Fill out the application completely and sign it. You must submit Event Permit applications and the required fee (check or money order payable to the Department of Fish and Game) to the Department's regional office in whose region the contest will (or primarily) be held. Applications for Annual Permits and the required fee may be submitted to any of the six regional offices or to the address on this leaflet.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:27 pm

Glenn wrote:Turkey Shoots fall under #2 in the paragraph above.

It still sounds like an attempt to extort revenue to me.

Permit requirement #2 states, "an Annual Permit for contests conducted by a single sponsor where, on each occasion, the number of participants does not exceed 50 and the total value of all prizes and inducements does not exceed $1,000." That sounds like a permit for a series of small tournaments held over an annual period where the number of participants doesn't exceed 50 and the total value of winnings doesn't exceed $1000.

The turkey shoot organized by Scott is described in his own words as a single, unorganized get together consisting of "10-12 boats getting together to have a little harmless fun". He needs a permit for a single, informal get together involving a field of less than 50 boats and winnings under $1000?

aNNieNsaLTIE · Post by **aNNieNsaLTIE** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:52 am

everyones fee to enter in the "t-shoot" should have been swimbait or high dollar crankbait........... wonder it that would have worked?

Steven

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:31 am

Just to play Devil's Advocate

fish_food wrote:Most turkey shoots don't fall under the criteria requiring someone to fork over fees or apply for a fishing contest permit...

The excerpt below is from DFG Informational Leaflet No. 41: Instructions for Obtaining Permits to Offer Prizes for Taking Game Fish in Fishing Contests
How to Obtain Permits
You must obtain either of two types of permits to conduct a fishing contest in which anglers take a game fish species:

Isn't a Turkey Shoot a fishing contest (fishing to make money and/or prizes) in which anglers take a game fish species? I believe you could categorize a Turkey Shoot as such

Scott,

$50 is cheap, you are lucky a DFG Game Warden didn't just show up at your weigh in and "pop" you for having an illegal fishing contest (ask the guys up at Shasta about this). You don't want to know what the fine would have been for holding an un-permitted fishing contest

Obi
ps. People seem to fergit that there are several DFG folks that frequent this forum

dean · Post by **dean** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:38 am

planning on being there scott,I'm gonna give you an extra ten for the gestapo to defray expenses,and to show my appreciation for you taking the trouble to do the shoot.love ya guy.dean

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:09 am

Scott,

Now you know why so many tournaments are no longer run on Folsom. If there is a fee to be charged the folks at Folsom will find a way to collect it.
And beware of State Parks because they actually want you to open up your 'books' so they can find anything you might have made a profit on and institute a way to suck some more money out of you.

The way I look at it is I'm already paying way too much money to live and recreate in this state.

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:34 am

Ok, I want F&G to do their job. I am happy when the Warden is watching over Folsom Lake. HOWEVER, this seems like nit-picking of the highest form. They collect an extra $50, but what do they lose? My buddy Scott has done more to bring tournament anglers out to Folsom over the past five years than just about anyone else I know. Those are park fees every time a tournament anglers passes through the gates....every time someone buys an annual launch pass because they want to fish one of Scott's events. What happens if he decides not to hold anymore events there? There are only one or two other guys that I know willing to hold tournaments there (it ain't the easiest lake to get anglers to fish).

To the warden who is obviously reading this thread. It is my belief that you may just have cost your lake and state money in the future (lots of it)...over a lousy 50 bucks. Work WITH the people who bring in revenue.

Greg Hernandez
(formally of the Folsom Bass League)

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:13 am

Obi-Hub wrote:Isn't a Turkey Shoot a fishing contest (fishing to make money and/or prizes) in which anglers take a game fish species? I believe you could categorize a Turkey Shoot as such

Yes, it is a fishing contest. So is a friendly wager between a guy in the front of the boat and his buddy in the back seat over who catches the most or biggest fish.

They're treating an informal get together as an officially sponsored/sanctioned/organized series of tournaments in order to collect a tiny amount of revenue. It's a bad move that only generates further resentment against the agency...

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:28 am

What bothers me to no end about this - and I have brought this up to the attention of DFG officials is that there are numerous large events out there operating without permits!

Few may realize this, but trout, a species stocked in many lakes by the state - also fall under the permit regulations. Hmmmm, a quick preview of the DFG site that lists all contest shows the following folks, who conduct huge events, do not currently have permits filed for events they just held or events scheduled for just around the corner.

May Trout Classic at Big Bear Lake - 400+ participants and over $1K in prizes - a DFG stocked public venue!

Million Dollar Troutstock - 11 lakes in the Mammoth lakes area with over 1,000 participants and $10K in cash and prizes - also DFG stocked public lakes.

Stillwater Classic - Crowley Lake - 100+ participants and over 1K in prizes.

This does not even take into consideration all the season opening tagged fish and other contest that are held in the Sierras during the trout opener and during the summer months.

Once again, it seems as though law enforcement is ticketing the jaywalkers while letting the bankrobbers run rampant! Worst of all, there are no teeth in the regulations for running an event without a permit!

And what about the reporting regulations? If public funds are being used to stock these lakes, shouldn't these event organizers be held to the same post contest reporting standards that we must comply with? I'm sure that DFG would like to know how many pounds of fish stocked with public monies are being pulled from these lakes to enhance the profit of others.

There needs to be fines and penalties for running bona fide events operating without a DFG permit.

It would be very easy for DFG to get a copy of Western Outdoors, the Fish Sniffer, Fishing and Hunting News, or a quick google of the internet to find out about events that are being run in the state. Simply compare these against the existing list of permits and you will quickly know who is in violation.

I swear that I am the ONLY person who shows up at the DFG Jamborees and files for trout event permits.

OK - I'm done venting now.

Hutch
WON BASS

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:29 am

Fish_Food,

Unfortunately, an individual (Sponsor) organized this event via a public venue and opened it to any and all who want to participate. This makes your Turkey Shoot a planned (scheduled) not an "informal" event. This is what makes it a "fishing contest". Therefore making the "Sponsor" responsible for having a permit to conduct a "fishing contest".

Another little tidbit, it is also illegal to transport live game fish (aka putting fish in your livewell and driving around the lake). By having a tournament permit it allows, you are "permitted" to keep live bass in your livewell.

All this information is available to those that choose to read the CA DFG regulations for fishing in our "over regulated state". This is the easy way to stay out of trouble, other of us like to learn it via the school of hard knocks

Remember our political representatives have come to believe that the job of our government to protect us from ourselves

OK, time to git off me soapbox

Obi

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:36 am

Obi-Hub wrote: Another little tidbit, it is also illegal to transport live game fish (aka putting fish in your livewell and driving around the lake). By having a tournament permit it allows, you are "permitted" to keep live bass in your livewell.

Obi

So what you're saying here is that if I catch a fish and intend to keep it, I have to kill it right away unless I have a permit to fish a tournament?

Interesting. I have a license issued by the DFG that says I can keep five fish. Nothing on there says I gotta kill 'em immediately after being caught. Course I know I can't keep them alive leaving the lake.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:37 am

Obi-Hub wrote:Fish_Food,

Unfortunately, an individual (Sponsor) organized this event via a public venue and opened it to any and all who want to participate.

I thought westernbass.com was privately owned...

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:39 am

I have no problem throwing an extra 5 or 10 bucks!
btw, Anybody needs a ride? I have no back seater as of right now
It's not a great boat but it does the job. 1982 18' ranger 150 merc.

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:55 am

Tony,

Yes, your fishing license entitles you to a legal bag limit of fish but if you read the all of the regulations, you find the regulation about "transporting" live game fish as well as what is considered a "gamefish". I know a couple of people that were read the riot act for having live "legal" bass in there livewell while not fishing a tournament.

Try catching a trophy trout and throw it your livewell and get inspected by the DFG and see what can happen

BTW...Both Black Bass and Salmonoides are considered "game fish"

Obi

ps. Tony give me a call

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:01 am

fish_food wrote:I thought westernbass.com was privately owned...

Yes, WB.com is privately owned but is open to the public, just like parking lots where cops can give you tickets for traffic violations

Obi

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:07 am

Obi-Hub wrote:Another little tidbit, it is also illegal to transport live game fish (aka putting fish in your livewell and driving around the lake). By having a tournament permit it allows, you are "permitted" to keep live bass in your livewell.

I thought the regs stated, "live fin fish may not be transported alive from the water where taken," which I interpret as the transportation of live fish across bodies of water or overland as being illegal. And it's "fin fish" which covers baitfish species as well--it's not just "game fish."

It is illegal to keep live trout, however.

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:08 am

Cops cannot give you a ticket for violating traffic signs in a parking lot other than one for parking in a handicapped area..

mac

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:19 am

sponsor = one who assumes responsibility for some other person or thing; a person or an organization that pays for or plans and carries out a project or activity

kylebass91 wrote:I dont think anyones "Sponsoring" that event lol

Glenn wrote:
fish_food wrote:

How to Obtain Permits
(2) an Annual Permit for contests conducted by a single sponsor where, on each occasion, the number of participants does not exceed 50 and the total value of all prizes and inducements does not exceed $1,000. Apply for either type of permit on Form 775. Forms are available from the Department's regional offices. Fill out the application completely and sign it. You must submit Event Permit applications and the required fee (check or money order payable to the Department of Fish and Game) to the Department's regional office in whose region the contest will (or primarily) be held. Applications for Annual Permits and the required fee may be submitted to any of the six regional offices or to the address on this leaflet.

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:40 am

mac (Doyle McEwen) wrote:Cops cannot give you a ticket for violating traffic signs in a parking lot other than one for parking in a handicapped area..

mac

Mac,

They do in So Cal. Go ahead and try to fight it...it don't work...at least down here!

Obi

kmurphy · Post by **kmurphy** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:49 am

The question of who needs to get a permit is clearly stated in the Fish and Game Code and in DFG Informational Leaflet No. 41: "A permit issued by the California Department of Fish and Game is required by any person to offer prizes or other inducements in fishing contests, tournaments or derbies for the taking of game fish".

So if you are going to offer anything as a reward for taking game fish, you need a permit from the DFG.

Hope this clarifies who needs the permit.

Good Fish'N,
Kyle

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:53 am

kmurphy wrote:The question of who needs to get a permit is clearly stated in the Fish and Game Code and in DFG Informational Leaflet No. 41: "A permit issued by the California Department of Fish and Game is required by any person to offer prizes or other inducements in fishing contests, tournaments or derbies for the taking of game fish".

So if you are going to offer anything as a reward for taking game fish, you need a permit from the DFG.

Hope this clarifies who needs the permit.

Good Fish'N,

Kyle

For future reference, would Bragging Rights To Be Held In Perpetuity be considered an inducement under DFG permit requirements?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:06 am

We all pay that $50.00 per tournament DFG permits here ar Don Pedro, the thing is, DFG does nothing to stock or restock Bass in Don Pedro! Don Pedro does it every year to the tune of approx $ 5000.00. But I might ad, DFG can come and shock and take all the Bass they want and transport them to somewhere else; Now figure that one out ?? And please explain it to me !!

(look no caps again)!!

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:13 am

fish_food wrote:
Obi-Hub wrote:Another little tidbit, it is also illegal to transport live game fish (aka putting fish in your livewell and driving around the lake). By having a tournament permit it allows, you are "permitted" to keep live bass in your livewell.
I thought the regs stated, "live fin fish may not be transported alive from the water where taken," which I interpret as the transportation of live fish across bodies of water or overland as being illegal. And it's "fin fish" which covers baitfish species as well--it's not just "game fish."

It is illegal to keep live trout, however.

This is the way I interpret it as well. Someone from the DFG should jump on here explain this. Or do they just read and not post?

Jay Rowan · Post by **Jay Rowan** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:55 am

For future reference, would Bragging Rights To Be Held In Perpetuity be considered an inducement under DFG permit requirements?

Not under my interpretation, but there is still the issue of culling fish. (which is how this whole deal came up) The only exception that allows the culling of fish is for a permitted Black Bass Tournament. (Section 230 in Title 14 is the section of code that covers tournaments if your interested)

Just to clarify, this instance is no different than the Wed. evening big fish shootout in Clear Lake that has a permit, or any other club or group that gets an annual permit, most of which only pull 8-14 boats in this area.
Also, in defense of our enforcement, that have one of the toughest most underpaid jobs around, this was not a particular warden or anyone else surfing the net looking to pick on someone. Scott has always been a great guy to work with, has always handled his business correctly with the Department and was a good TD with the FBL events last year.
There was a question that was posed as part of a larger conversation dealing with culling fish, tournaments, turkey shoots, definitions, etc. and this event came up. It was deemed that this turkey shoot meets the definition provided above just as much as any club type event and should have an annual permit just like any club etc. would need to get. It's an organized event, prizes in the form of cash, the number of boats is more than many clubs in the area are pulling, there is a weigh-in (Take), and there will be culling of fish by some at least. In the past the Folsom weeknight turkey shoots have been ongoing summertime deals. Not just one time informal get togethers.
The goal was not to extort money from anyone, in fact I worked every angle I could yesterday (because Scott has been a good TD and there we're issues beyond his control) to transfer one of his unused FBL permits to use for this.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:06 am

Hey Scott do yall wiegh in the fish? if your doing a trust buddy thing and writing down the wieghts and releasing the the fish once cuaght I would fight that fee/ticket if you have a fishing license then you have the right to catch record and release a bass on public waters. If you are doing the whole wiegh in thing then yea your screwed but I remember a few years ago when you started this I for one replied you would need the permit as well as others so unless you didnt do your home work then this should be of no suprize.

When I put on the Pitch Black seires I had to draw permits in advance for all event and pay up front.

That sucks I know but as bill said they are desparate the whole musscle thing is gonna blow up in our face also just wait and see. as for finding out how California spends our dollars, good luck with that this is the only state I know of that hides that, Very sneaky.

Anyway good luck pay the piper and have fun

Tight Lines Dom

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:23 am

Jay - thanks for coming in and providing a very valid explanation. It is refreshing to see members of the groups we must work with providing insight into the decision making process.

CN · Post by CN » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:36 am

I am oblivios to a rule stateing I cant have live fish in my livewell.

So then would it not apply to bank fisherman and stringer's with live fish????

Chris B. · Post by **Chris B.** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:45 am

To underscore how ridiculous it is for the State of California to expend significant time and effort to collect a measly $50 for a one-time fishing event like this, the park pass and boat launch fees by far exceed revenues from single-event permits like this.

I would argue that the single useful purpose of these permits should be to remind organizers of the rules and laws governing fishing events. With that goal, the cost should be free and all done online.

But then again, this is coming from the State of California. Our state employees have such an exemplary track record of efficiency and work ethic (not!). I have a long time friend who works for the state and he regularly tells me how ridiculously and blatantly wasteful the state is with our taxpayer money. This is just another sad example (IMHO).

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:11 pm

"1.63. Movement of Live Fish.
Except as provided in sections 4.00 through
4.30 and 230, live fin fish may not be transported
alive from the water where taken."

I cannot find a definition of "transporting" in the regulations so I guess it is up to the game wardens individual interpretation of the above regulation as to weather having fish in the livewell of a bass boat while "on the lake" is in fact considered "transporting" live fish and a violation of the law.
It has always been my understanding that this rule was only applicable once your boat left the "water where the fish were taken".
Jay, can you help us out with this one?

James Huffmon

CW2 Tucker · Post by **CW2 Tucker** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:56 pm

This topic has spread to other forums that I visit. One already shut down posting up any more TS events in the future.

WTG CA!! I think they have figured out every conceivable way to ruin your day on the water!

John

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:01 pm

OBI,

I think you are mistaken about "transporting", Wardens I have worked with only refer to transporting when the fish are live going across dry land.

Like transporting fish live to market or another body of water.

I could be wrong,

A.G.

(edited once for spelling errors.

)

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:02 pm

JamesH wrote:"1.63. Movement of Live Fish.
Except as provided in sections 4.00 through
4.30 and 230, live fin fish may not be transported
alive from the water where taken."

I cannot find a definition of "transporting" in the regulations so I guess it is up to the game wardens individual interpretation of the above regulation as to weather having fish in the livewell of a bass boat while "on the lake" is in fact considered "transporting" live fish and a violation of the law.
It has always been my understanding that this rule was only applicable once your boat left the "water where the fish were taken".
Jay, can you help us out with this one?

James Huffmon

James - I can answer this one. It is not about transporting fish on the water in your livewell.

It is about culling. You cannot cull bass, unless you are fishing under a permit for a tournament.

If you are not fishing under a permit, you cannot continue fishing for bass once you have reached your limit.

Jay Rowan · Post by **Jay Rowan** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:15 pm

JamesH wrote:"1.63. Movement of Live Fish.
Except as provided in sections 4.00 through
4.30 and 230, live fin fish may not be transported
alive from the water where taken."

I cannot find a definition of "transporting" in the regulations so I guess it is up to the game wardens individual interpretation of the above regulation as to weather having fish in the livewell of a bass boat while "on the lake" is in fact considered "transporting" live fish and a violation of the law.
It has always been my understanding that this rule was only applicable once your boat left the "water where the fish were taken".
Jay, can you help us out with this one?

James Huffmon

It's a different rule than the one that comes into play with Black Bass tournaments.
The transporting rule is for leaving the waterbody. It's to keep people from being a Jonny fish seed and spreading their favorite fish to a new waterbody that it may not belong in. Pike and Lake Davis.
The deal with keeping a fish in your live well is more addressed by the culling or High grading rules and the definition/ interpretation of "Take". "Take is to Hunt, pursue, catch... or attempting to do so" as listed in the book. So as written, once you decide to even try to catch a fish it is "Take" and once a fish is caught unless released immediately (put in the box to show your buddies etc.) it counts toward your daily bag and possession limit regardless of your intentions at a later time. Just the same as if it was a 10 inch bass, I would imagine you would get a ticket for an undersized fish even if you were planing to release it later. From the time the fish goes in the box you are not allowed to release that fish in order to keep a bigger one or cull up. Permitted bass tournaments were given an exemption to this rule because they are required as part of the tournament conditions to release all the fish alive and in good condition.
That interpretation of course opens a whole bunch of questions about catch and release as it relates to bass, since they normally survive fine in a livewell unlike most other fish, and taking my new PB back to the ramp to get a picture or show my buddies then releasing it later, or do I have to kill it which would obviously not be in the best interest of the resource.
My only response for that is that I've seen big fish get brought back to the ramp get a picture then be released alive with no issues, and there are wardens that will write tickets for "high grading" fish.
Trout specifically may not be kept alive, which if anyone has ever tried they don't normally last long anyway. I've heard that is to keep them from being used as bait but I'm not positive on that one.

And not all St. employees are slackers. This is all on my own time today.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:24 pm

You know whats BS is that the rules in California have way to many grey areas. DFG and the rest of the state want it this way so when they feel they need more $$$$ Flow they can then go out and enforce the same laws they let slide.

Do yall remember the Gamakatsu Hook debate? Yea if you use Gamakatsu Hooks your breaking a California law

Becuase the "GAP' is to big! But do they enforce it? No not yet but wait one day some sucker is gonna get boarded and as soon as DFG sees that hook on the ol rod TICKET TIME! They litterly set us up for a take down.

How many of you wear your FL above your chest ? me niether and I have had DFG approach me on Del Val and Amador they let it slide never mentioned it but if they wanted to they could have cited me. I was wearing it on a lenard which hung down past my chest. Point is you play by the book become a California law expert
or exspect the unexspected when ever they feel like it.

What I want to know now that the pressure is on and someone from DFG is bound to post.

WHERE IS THAT 5.00 DELTA STAMP MONEY?
Sure in hell not going back into the Delta

Why do yall think all the big time pros move out of this state? becuase fishing in California is a privledge and down south its a way of life. Yea I am really fed up with this states politics, they dont even use any lube! I know, I know shut up and bend over

Tight Lines
Dom

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:43 pm

Jay,
I understand your reasoning, but my gripe is not WHAT happened but HOW it all went down. Someone saw a post on the INTERNET and contacted Fish and Game...so that they can collect their 50 bucks. Thats almost like a city cop watching the news on TV, seeing someone speed at 75mph on I80...and then calling a CHP.

You can see how much negativity has been generated by this thread. And as someone else pointed out, it has spread to other forums. More than most groups that I know, bass fishermen talk with each other...this action was not in the best interest of F&G.
To me, it's just not worth it.

But not to worry, there has only been 1300+ views of this thread as of this writing.

Greg H.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:37 pm

So it didn't cost $50 for the permit

We're weighing five fish not three

And by the way winner doesn't take all, were paying two spots

Ex TD at his best.

Jones

Tags

Notice