River 2 Sea Baits Good or no Good !!

[bassmanwes]

Do the company reps care about there product or not? I lost a giant fish half way to the boat in a Melones event. I was using a river2sea bubble walker. I thought the fish just came free but the end broke about 1.5 inches up from the back. I took second place, that fish cost me the event. I notified River2sea, they replaced my bait. I sent them the broken one to show the damage, and to see if it was going to be a common flaw. I also including the story of what happened. They sent me a replacement but they didn’t seem to care that the bait cost me $2,000.00 in prize money. I consider it a problem when the bait is being used for the first time and the first fish to get hooked is able to brake it. The only reply I received was a sticky note that said “your replacement bait sorry“. I consider this unprofessional. If I was a rep or dealer of any bait I would never just blow off a costumer after my product failed. I don’t justify this type of response, I do like that specific bait but I find it hard to recommend them for business with any of my fellow bass fishermen.

[supermat]

Sorry you had a rough experience with them. I had a brand new rover crack on me about 2 years ago. I took it back to where I got it and they replaced it without question. Several weeks later I was at the ISE show and approached the River2Sea booth to see what was new. Upon talking with one of the gentlemen I mentioned my broken bait... you know what happened next? He produced MY bait from behind the counter and asked for all sorts of details about how/why I thought it broke! I swear, it seemed like he wouldn't sleep at night until he knew why one of his products had failed prematurely! I was VERY impressed by that and I've never had a problem with any other river2sea product. Hopefully your experience and treatment were an isolated occurance and will not be repeated as River2Sea has a reputation for being very classy.

[Cooch]

Been using them fer two years on the River during post spawn. I have never had a problem with them and prolly own 2 dozen of them. I also use the Megabait Bubble pops, which I heard they OEM'd fer Megabait, great baits!

I'm not sure what more ya can ask for Wes, things break for reasons at times beyond our control. Ya got yer bait replaced, not sure what more we'd expect from a company that prolly gits 1000s of complaints annually. Certainly can not expect them to address and spend a lot of personal time with all 1000 of us.

I'm sorry ya lost out on a couple of grand, I know the feeling. Like they say in poker, "That fishing!" Dude if'n I could go back to and hit up all the Fluorocarbon or braided line companies that I used their line and broke off a double digit bass in a tournament, I'd be first in line. But we know this ain't a reality. We've all broken a G-Lommis rod, a Mercury motor, a Stratos boat, a Gammie hook, or what ever, that cost us a standing spot or two in a tournament and a better check. What do ya do, request a replacement if the product is defective, hope the manufacture responds and replaces it and we move on. Some of us git REAL lucky and are that needle in the hay stack that a company decides to take REAL good care of, some of us, just git the replacement we're looking for, others, well we've heard the horror stories. You got a new bait, ya really weren't treated badly, so it's all good brotha!

[DanO]

And someone who owned a lure company in the past I must ask you a question.

If replacing your bait is not what you were looking for, what would a customer expect in your situation?

What was unprofessional about them caring about the customer and their product enough to send you a replacement? Was the only acceptable response to offer to pay you back the $2000 that you say you lost?

We all understand how frustrating it is to lose fish, especially on equipment failure. I lost a giant fish on a swimbait last year in a 150 boat tournament because my reel seat would not tighten all the way down causing my reel to pop off the rod when I set the hook. That fish would have put me in the top 5. I suppose I should have aired my frustration on here after the manufacturer did the right thing y replacing the product.

However, the people at River2Sea took the time to send you a replacement lure, and because they didn't write a huge apology letter, or offer to pay you the money you say the failure cost you, you bring this on to a forum that River2Sea helps pay for by advertising each month.

Warranties are put on products because people stand behind their products, rods break, motors blow, batteries fail, line breaks, hooks straighten out and trolling motor cables break. Its called tournament fishing, and everytime we set foot on the bow of our boat, we push everything to the limits and we have to accept the risk of things not going right.

For an example Kevin VanDam's new boat ended up with a hole ripped in the bottom of it in the Delta, he lost an hour and a half of fishing as a result. Instead of blaming his boat sponsor, he bit the bullet and said he hit something as to avoid embarassment for his sponsor; who eventually recalled all of those new boats because of material failures.

For the record, I have seen all sorts of lures break under the stress of fish. Crankbaits, jerkbaits, swimbaits, topwater baits, spinnerbaits and even hooks. Baits made by domestic and international companies, I have even seen a Zara Spook ripped in half by a bass..

If you have a problem with this, I welcome you to email me, send me a private message or you can call me, I will be available.

Dan O'Sullivan
River2Sea Pro Staff
916-412-5232

[biteme]

Ive also been bummed with the way they hold up. I bought a spinner bait by them and after using it for about two hours and catching three fish the wire broke in half. Sux because I REALLY loved the bait.

[Gary Dobyns]

broken bait. I was practicing for a tournament and about a six pounder (legit not Coochie) broke the wire on my spinnerbait. I called the owner, Ray of Revenge, and told him his damn piece of sh** bait had just broken and I lost a six pounder. I was on him hard. Ray was all " I'm sorry dude, that never happens." I use the best wire" and so on. He says I'm really sorry. I'll send you some baits to make up for it, and so on. I told him I did not want any baits, I wanted my 6 pounder. His reply, "What am I supposed to do, swim down there and find him?" I said, "That would be a good start." Long pause..... "How many fish have you caught on that bait??" I say, "Not sure, a hundred or so." You should have heard him, It was something like "You SOB. I'm sick of you busting my balls". My reply, "Ya Ray but you're so easy and you squeal so good." I can't print what he said after that. This post reminded me of my prank. It was really funny and for the guys that know Ray, I know they will appreciate my long winded story. This was an abbreviated version, BTW. I had him gut hooked and played him well.

[bss_hunter]

Bassmanwes,
a pound and a half fish doesn't count as a "Giant" I think you should Reveal your name and e-mail adress since you're willing to ruin the name of companies in a forum.

[Brian]

Quit banging them up on the rocks when you cast and they will prob stop breaking on you.

[NaCl]

Yamamoto Senkos are too soft! They are always being thrown off the hook while you're landing fish. Light wire spinnerbaits break waaay too easy! Spook bodies separate on big fish! Five pound test fluorocarbon line has to be re-tied waaay too often!

What do all these things have in common? They flat out catch fish! I find it interesting that some of the most effective baits are also some of the most fragile. Just have to adjust to them and keep fishing.

.....NaCl

BTW - I've broken four speed traps in one day!

[Phil]

In the four years we have been dealer for and selling River2Sea, I personally am the only one that has ever had a problem, I lost a fish in a tournament on a rip bait that the split ring actually came uncoiled, ( I had never seen that before) . There is not a better bait than River2sea great balance, great quality, I am proud to be a dealer for them. Now Rapala, mass produced somewhere in the world, I love them, but have had customers come back complaining that they do not run true even after tweking them ! Its not worth making waves, I suggest if you do not like a company, call the owner , or just move on to another bait. I am sure Lucky Craft has had problems as has Diawa, Norman, Lure Jensen, Rapala, Strike Pro, all of them.............just our .02
As for spinnerbait wire breaking, thats funny , we have been making them since 1989, all with stainless wire, one at a time. Have had them bend because of my ignorance,of over heating on the pour, but never break.............but then I throw them away after a few fish also.
thank you. (spell check on some of this)!!

River2sea, they are a quality company

[sTony]

All I know is they make good baits that catch fish, all kinds of different species. I don't remember any breaking or malfunctioning on me but I have had other baits break on me and hooks straighten out and so on.

Heck we've all found new and improved ways to lose a big fish in a tournament, haven't we? I never ever thought to blame the lure, line or hook company.

Wait a minute now. That last tournament I was in I lost a double digit beast cause the bass did a big jump, twisted and threw my crankbait. They shouldn't be able to do that, should they? And I'm sure it cost me a huge paycheck.

What about that tournament where I was fishing a jig and this beast of a bass hit that jig so hard I darned near lost my arm and then the fight was on and the fish straightened out my hook and got away. That fish shouldn't have been able to do that, should it?

I'm thinking that maybe it hasn't been me that's lost all this many fish over all the years. Now it occurs to me that it's been the lures fault or the lines fault or the hooks fault and so on. Yeah, that's it. It's the fault of nearly every manufacturer out there ya see. I'm still practically perfect in every way. I realize now that I've never lost a fish. It's ALWAYS been my tackle's fault.

What a huge relief!!!!

sTony

[Phil]

A tad harsh don't ya think Tony ?

[sTony]

Was it more or less harsh then the post that started this thread off? Mine was written 'tongue in cheek' if you know what I mean. Maybe I needed to add a few smiley faces to it and a couple LOL's or HAR's so that everyone would know I was kidding about.

sTony

[Phil]

Probably not !

[Guest]

Well I don't have much River2Sea in my boat... but, I have some. There is no particular reason I don't have much River2Sea in my boat... for some reason I just use other brands like Jackall for most of my hard bait stuff. I am sure the River2Sea works great. In fact, I have seen it work great for many people. However, there is one bait they have that I had to have.... The StepWa!!!

Last summer I picked up a StepWa Frog (River2Sea) in black at Outdoor Pro Shops in Santa Rosa. The next day I was fishing at Clear Lake and I caught 3 fish on it.. in about 5 casts! The frog was darn near torn in two. Well I didn't have another one, so I cut the belly off of another brand of frog and superglued it over the top of the torn section of the stepwa. I then proceeded to catch another 5 or 6 fish on the bait. Then it was torn again. I did some more surgery right there on the boat and got another 4 or 5 fish out of the bait. I don't think I missed a fish that day on a technique that generally produces barely highter than a 50% hookup ratio. Was I pissed the bait didn't hold up? Hell no... you know what I did... I went to Clear Lake Bait and Tackle near Redbud and pegged em (bought all of them they had).... I think I had 8 from there. Fished the next 3 days with those 8.... then headed back to Santa Rosa (OPS) and pegged them there too. I think I went through 20 to 30 of those baits last year.. (In 2 colors) and last summer I probably caught 300-400 fish with them from 2 to 8.5 lbs with most in the 5 lb range... including 2 Wednesday night Turkey Shoot tournament wins with it. Am I complaining about the 20 to 30 baits I had to buy... Heck no, that bait rocks and I have just recently picked up my supply for this year!!

FYI: This frog can be walked even with your line over docks, trees, ropes, rocks - you name it. In my opinion, it is the perfect open water frog!

[Phil]

WHY THE STEPWA AND NOT THE BULLYWA

[Guest]

The stepwa has the jitterbug style lip on it.. so it will walk even when you line is over or under docks, trees, ropes, boats, tules, you name it. I cast it into the open holes behind a big group of tules or a dock etc... and typically with the bullywa style (non lip) frogs you can't get that nice walk-the-dog style walk on it that this fish can't resist. With the stepwa - you can walk it no matter where you cast it!

[Steve]

Well, first thing I do when looking at a bait is think about where Im gonna use it, how Im gonna use, and most importanly the size of fish I think I may be hooking with it. For example, when night fishing at Clear Lake with jigs Im not gonna use a jig with a flimsy hook because I know I stand a chance of hooking a toad that likely will straighten the hook out. If I want a little swimbait but know I might have a shot at a big fish, I choose one with an appropriate hook that can hold that big fish.

Not all baits are engineered to be able to handle a big fish. If you have to modify a bait, in whatever fashion, then do it. Stock split rings are notorious for opening up on big fish; if I even think theres a chance Im gonna hook a big fish, I replace my split rings to those that are made for big fish.

The other thing too is this. If Im using a bait that catches just keeper type fish 99.9% of the time I still know I have a shot at a big one and make a mental note to deal with that possiblity and react accordingly, such as having my drag set light and fighting the fish lightly until its worn out. No horsing the fish.

Sounds to me that you stumbled into a big fish unexpectedly, and didnt react appropriately resulting in a busted bait. Really though, I have no idea what you did or why the bait busted.

What I do know is that the company reacted admirably by sending you a new bait, and it sounds like they did it in a timely fashion. To expect them to give you 2K (which it sounds like you are eluding to) is just ridiculous. Heck, there was no guarantee you were gonna boat that fish anyway regardless of whether or not the bait broke. Chalk it up to a learning experience and call it good.

Fishing is fishing, no guarantees. You chose to use that bait. Next time you think you may luck into a big fish, maybe choose not to use that bait because you learned that that bait may not be able to handle a big fish.

(Disclaimer: Ive never used the bait in question, never even held it. I have no idea if its engineered to be able to handle a big fish; I was just hypothesizing as to what the problem may have been )

[Joe Bruce]

I have 22 of there crankbaits (not sayin witch one or color) with a broken bill. best dam crankbait ever produced. won enough money on um to buy a hundred more and Id still be ahead. I hate that I have to tune um after every fish caught and the bill breaks 5 feet before it hits the bank. but I will buy as many as I think I need cause theres nothing better.

[Vince Borges]

In the last 100% bass at Melones i had a brand new Kanji spinnerbait tied on. First fish was a toad pushing 10lbs. After a couple of head shakes shes gone only to real in just the blades cause the wire broke. E-mailed Kanji and they didnt even send me a new spinner. I dont know waht tourney you were in but it cost us about $7,000.00. I was not looking for any kiss *** apology alls i wanted was a new blade to try again, after all it did entice a 10lb fish. . But after getting no responce from them at all i can rightfully say now that i would never buy another one based on there customer service. Dan O and everyone else here is correct in that you should be happy with there customer service and give them another try, after all it did hook you a toad.

Vince

[Paul W]

They treated you fairly....you got a new bait and an apology, there's not much else they can do for you. They dont know for a fact their bait breaking cost you a tournament, so they cant do much about that. All thats left to do is take that new bait back to Melones and catch that fish


Paul W

[biteme]

Was is broke right below the bend? Thats where mine snapped.

[DanO]

Kanji spinnerbait

Spinnerbait can break, some sooner than others.

We do not make the Kanji, Kanji International does.

Spinnerbait forms invlove bending metal wire, bending metal wire creates friction, and can weaken the wire. I built handmade spinnerbaits for 10 years for Limi-it Lures of California, 7 while it was owned by Bob Lim, and 3 for myself after I purchased the company from Bob. We had spinnerbaits break from time to time.

It is especially common with light wire spinnerbaits, like the Kanji, Revenge, River2Sea etc. The wire gets bent out of shape and bending the wire creates friction and heat, thus weakening the wire; hence, breakage.

The only way to lessen the chance is to go to a heavier wire, but you will get less bites. You could go to titanium wire, but have you ever tried to tune one, impossible, because it takes massive amounts of heat to bend titanium wire.

If a head is made of tungsten, that increases the chance of breakage because it changes the molecular makeup of the wirre.

Heat, friction, and pressure froma fish can result in breakage. There is a fine line between performance of vibration and performance of durability, most companies try to walk as close to the vibration and durability line as possible, its what makes a good spinnerbait.

DanO

[Phil]

Well Dan'o I agree with you. We have been building spinnerbaits since 1989. At times we will use .030 to .032 wire for the vibration but they do not last as long as the ones we build with .040 to .045 wire for the durability. I find the .030 better for spotted bass and the larger for the largemouth bass. Just my opinion. I found Titanium to be more brittle and to break way before wire. At one time we were using piano wire just for the vibration, knowing it would never last more than a few tournaments, and very vulnerable to rust, being only spring steel, but it worked great, Today for ourselves we will still make our own wire form out of piano wire,, but would never sell it due to short life....I believe all manufactures are looking for and edge, something new, different, and run the risk of defection, and consumer issues. Part of the game.

JIGS

[bassmanwes]

Well its seems I ruffled a few feathers here, but some seem to understand. The real issue here is the bait is an above average priced bait and when one pays for quality I believe one should get it. To have broken a new bait right out of the package on the first fish and prob. third cast in open water on a point is a product failure. I tried email with no response then had to call, then passed off to two others finally got someone to listen. replaced my bait witch was great no doubt. I was tring to do the right thing and report the issue. But I never broke a sammy or even a superspook! so I've gone back to them. I cant say I'm a well known angler as I'm not. But I like it that way so those who say I catch small one I bet I've beat you many times you just dont know it. For all to jump on a band wagon and put me down. If you loose a giant on this bait Ha Ha what goes around comes around. For those who didnt thanks for the input and many big sacks for you.

[Phil]

One thing I believe to always remember above all the rest. Internet writings and emails, are always misinterpreted. So just keep that in mind.

[DG]

Dan O,
I was at the Rocklin West Marine seminar and talked With you at lenght about the River2sea baits. You may remember I told you I had the same year Skeeter but it was the ZX185. You were nice enough to give me some "samples" The Friday before I had ordered several baits from them that included two packs of the Bottom Walkers w/weed guard 150 in the rainbow trout color. A week or two later I went to open one of the packs and noticed that the colors had run and I now had a Chartruse colored bait. The green had taken over the light belley. I checked the others and noticed the same thing but worse! After several weeks of putting it off, I took them to West marine. Rather than get it second hand, the put me on the phone with a person from River2sea. That person actually challenged what I said by saying "that couldn't happen" The person from West Marine got back on the phone and told the River2sea person "I'm looking right at them" I went back on the phone and then was told " we don't guarentee colors on soft baits" He then asked me where I kept them. I told him they were in covered plastic shoe boxes in my garage. The River2sea person then told me "I couldn't have and must have left them in the sun" At that point, I said are you calling me a liar? Then the West Marine guy took the phone out of my hands and told River2sea to get two more packages on order now!. I received the new ones two days later and so far they look OK.
I'm sorry about the long e mail but wanted you to know how bad their customer service was and if I had not been for West Marine, I might still be trying to get some satisfaction from them. "Kudos" to West Marine and "boo" to River2sea! Please share this with someone at River2sea. I'm not posting it in this thread as it might be a one time thing. I like their baits but they need to improve their customer service.
Thanks
Dick

[Smile_n_Jax]

Hey wes and DG. Sorry to hear you had bad experiences with River2Sea customer support.

While attending the ISE show in Sacramento I happen across a River2Sea booth where they had set up an aquarium to show how their Stand'n Yabbie performed in the water. Got to talking with an Asian gentleman who I assumed was a company rep. When I told him I'd just bought a couple packs of those baits at Hi's Tackle he gave me a cap. After talking some more I was so impressed with how he treated me I went back to Hi's and bought a couple of their spinner baits. I guess it all boils down to who you talk to.

[safelight]

I will call Bob Trice and KK and R2S tomorrow morning to make sure they both understand how important it is to maintain a high level of customer service going forward. And by the way, always feel free to call me anytime if you or anyone you know is ever dissatisfied with the service you receive at any West marine store so I can address immediately. Thanks for the info.

Charley Almassey
West Coast Inland District Manager
West Marine Pro Angler
M 925 200-9825

[safelight]

I will call Bob Trice and KK and R2S tomorrow morning to make sure they both understand how important it is to maintain a high level of customer service going forward. And by the way, always feel free to call me anytime if you or anyone you know is ever dissatisfied with the service you receive at any West marine store so I can address immediately. Thanks for the info.

Charley Almassey
West Coast Inland District Manager
West Marine Pro Angler
M 925 200-9825