Fishing Line

[riceman]

I understand selling new products, technology and the latest and greatest helps drive the bass fishing industry but a person can go nuts trying to keep up. I was wondering are there still people using predominately mono line. It seems Mr. Dance, Martin, Parker, Clunn etc. did well before flouro etc.

[jiggin4bass]

Maxima green best mono out there for both spinning and casting. Ive use it for over 20 years.

[BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER]

Trilene Big Game in 15, 20, 25 on all of my reaction, swimbait, and small topwater rods (braid for larger topwater). And just because I’m cheap and rarely use a spinning rod, I still use 10lb Big Game on my occasional spinning set ups….. although I’d recommend braid to flouro

[monte300]

I stopped using mono years ago for three reasons. 1) line memory, it seems the line would get super curly including the first day I spooled it up. 2) line stretch, on a long cast I had a hard time driving home the hook and losing fish. 3) the inability to strip tules without breaking the line. When I did use mono I preferred Trilene XL which stands for extra limp. I always thought it had some of the least line memory of any mono I ever used. Trilene Big Game and XT are good lines and are probably more durable than XL, but I think they have more memory. Being a Delta only stick, I switched over to braid for everything. Braid has its issues and there’s no perfect line. However, braid does take care of all three of my mono pet peeves.

[WRB]

It’s a myth that mono line stretch's under a hook set. Say what! Mono line begins to stretch at 1/3rd the line strength same as FC line. What anglers “feel” as stretch is line bow because mono line has higher coefficient of drag going through water creating a convex bow in the line that needs to be pulled straight before any force is applied to the hook set.
The Reel set and firm rod sweep eliminates line bow and sweeping the rod moves move line then the typical cross thief eye rod set. When you detect a strike try reeling fast (each reel turn = 24+ inches of line) then when the rod starts to load up sweep it Bach firmly.
Evaluate mono- copoly-FC line by diameter, pound test is misleading.
Heavy aquatic cover braid excels. Braid with a leader is popular but imo 2 knots are to fail is 100% greater then 1 knot, especially using FC line with poor knot strength.
Caught a lot of giant bass using mono line casting jigs over 100’, no issue hook setting.
Tom

[FinsNfeathers]

@WRB, It's ironic that you posted this today. Because just last week I went on an internet search for a lower stretching Fluoro and see that you have posted this exact thing dozens of times over the last decade on multiple forums…and it simply isn't true. Or at least, not the whole truth.

I'm not going to debate the science of mono stretch. I really don't know at exactly what pounds of pressure it starts stretching (vs rod bend which you've mentioned on other forums). I'd genuinely be interested in reading something scientific on it, but real life experience contradicts your statement.

Most here don't only fish for bass. Have you ever trolled with one rod using mono and one rod using braid side by side with, say 150-200 feet of line out for something small like trout or kokanee? Toplining a shallow running lure has very little bow, and the difference in line bow in this situation between mono and braid is negligible. It is a night and day difference when a fish hits and fighting the fish. With braid, you feel every little headshake immediately, 200 feet behind the boat. With mono, you can barely tell the difference between a fish and weeds until it gets significantly closer to the boat. Why? Line stretch seems to be the most logical answer. It certainly isn't line bow…because there isn't any…or whatever little bow there is would be similar with both lines, but they feel drastically different.

Shoot, even vertical dropshotting, straight down, in say 50' of water. Mono vs braid? Not even close to the same feeling. Most bites with mono feel like your rubber band just got caught on something. And fighting the fish feels like you're using a rubber band until they get closer to the boat. Braid, again, you can feel every little tic and headshake. Is that because of line stretch? I don't know. I assume so. But you know what it is not? Bow in the line…because I'm fishing straight down and there is no bow in the line at all.

Finally, I'll leave you with an experiment that I have personally done. Get a friend. One of you walk about 100 feet away and just pinch the line between your fingers while the other one sets the hook. With mono, it is very easy to hold on to. With braid, it pops right out. I'll tell you this, I'd hold onto a hook from 100' away while you set the hook with mono. I woudn't dare try that with braid.

Why? The logical answer is line stretch or lack thereof (with braid).

So while I'm open to other scientific explanations of what is happening. Bow in the line due to a higher coefficient of drag is only one contributing factor. But it isn't the full picture. There are fishing situations with ZERO bow in the line…and the "stretchiness" of mono is still very clearly felt vs braid. Why?

[jiggin4bass]

So bass fishing has become Rocket science now huh. I never made the connection.

[WRB]

The easy method to understand line drag bow force is cut off the lure so nothing is attached to the end of the line and drag at walking speed about 150-200 feet of line behind your boat. This is a common practice to remove line twist. Make a slow wide turn while you reel the line back onto the reel while your boat is still moving. Mono line will have the most pressure reeling it it and will stay in the boat wake because it doesn’t cut through water easily. Do the same with FC line and it has less pressure reeling back on and tends to go straight to the rod not staying in the bait wake less line bow. The isn’t stretching but the rod is bending with the pressure removing mono or FC line. Braid doesn’t sink dragging it grind the boat and recovers with little pressure, in fact you need to apply pressure to recover the braid tight back on the reel.
I am talking coefficient of line drag in water “feels” like line stretch, the larger diameter the line is the higher the pressure feels.
I the line bow feels like line stretch it’s academic to the angler because of loss of lure contact.
When you remove the line bow mono is equal in hook setting to FC of equal diameter.
Consider this fact every giant bass I caught was using mono line and casting a jig over 100’,5 between 17 lbs to 19 lbs, well over 100 DD size bass. What is difficult is strike detection and FC does improve that. The down side with FC is knot strength, more knots have been created to offset poor FC knot strength then any other lines or a reason.
Yes, I have trolled both Mono and FC line using the same deep diving crank baits to determine if the lures run any deeper and only slightly deeper using the same diameter line, FC has better lure
movement feedback.
Sunline Deifer Armilo Nylon Mono was by far a superior but no longer available.
Tom

[mark poulson]

I now fish the Delta, so the water is almost never gin clear, and the fish aren't line shy.
When I fished lakes in SoCal, I used to fish straight 12lb fluoro, because I could still feel a tick on slack line with the line over my non-handle index finger. I thought fish could see braid. I'd feel a fish tick my Ika, count to three, and then set the hook.
But up here I can't control a good fish in the tulles or pull them out of the grass with 12lb fluoro. I learned that the hard way.
I'm 77, and no longer have lightning fast reflexes.
I fish braid, with a 5'+- 20lb fluoro or mono leader, and it helps me get a good hookset, like I used get when I was younger. I use an improved Alberto connection knot, and have never had a knot failure.

[FinsNfeathers]

Edit, because I misread your post. You're still describing a bow in the line. I understand what causes the bow. What I'm saying is there is not always a bow in the line when fishing. And you can still feel a distinct difference in "stretchiness" of the two lines when comparing.

I didn't bring up trolling to compare depths. My point was, the reason small fish feel like they're connected to rubber band 200' behind the boat is because…the line is stretching. With braid, you feel everything…because the line isn't stretching.

If you don't think a hookset with braid generates more force at the hookpoint than mono, then I don't know what to tell you. Go try it for yourself, out of the water, drag has nothing to do with it.

I'm not suggesting you can't adequately set the hook with mono, people have been doing it for a very long time.

But every time someone like @monte300 says they switched from mono to braid because they don't like the line stretch…you always chime in saying the line isn't actually stretching. You have repeatedly said that the rod bends at a lower force than is required to stretch the line…thus the line isn't actually stretching.

If that was the case, then anytime you are in a direct straight line between the rod and…well, anything…the feeling between braid and mono should be damn near the same. Especially out of the water.

But it isn't. Mono feels like a rubber band. And braid feels like it has zero give at all, for better or worse.

Why? Line stretch.

[jiggin4bass]

My check list latest and greatest
Because the Pro's say you need it.
20 $450.00 rod & reel combos
Fishing tackle $14,000.00 min.
Fishing graphs at least 4 $12000.00
Cant forget those
2 power poles $4000.00
1 spot lock trolling motor your choice $4000.00
5 Lithium batteries $3500.00
Safety gear $1500.00
21 foot Bass Cat cougar 250 merc $108,000.00
Chevy pickup $85,000.00
Let's see did I leave anything out.
Oh wait
A Hand full of Puffball jigs & trailers $30.00
$25.00 worth of mono fishing line
Maxima green line.
I think I got everything.
Just add water

[WRB]

I now fish the Delta, so the water is almost never gin clear, and the fish aren't line shy.
When I fished lakes in SoCal, I used to fish straight 12lb fluoro, because I could still feel a tick on slack line with the line over my non-handle index finger. I thought fish could see braid. I'd feel a fish tick my Ika, count to three, and then set the hook.
But up here I can't control a good fish in the tulles or pull them out of the grass with 12lb fluoro. I learned that the hard way.
I'm 77, and no longer have lightning fast reflexes.
I fish braid, with a 5'+- 20lb fluoro or mono leader, and it helps me get a good hookset, like I used get when I was younger. I use an improved Alberto connection knot, and have never had a knot failure.

When I fished the Delta or Clear used 65 lb Fins braid (back up line use for my International tuna and Marlin reels).
As you know gotta get bit 1st and our SoCal big bass are both line and boat shy.
Tom

[Kelly Ripa]

Mono for my floating topwaters( spooks,ricos ..etc.)...everything else is either braid/fluorocarbon, straight fluorocarbon or straight braid. I use straight braid for my big topwater baits "think Lunker Plunker" , frogs , Buzzbaits . they don't know what hit them. Line stretch with a treble hook and a flexy rod can be your friend

[Derrick]

I used berkely big game 15lb,20lb for almost everything I fish with on the delta. Except punching and frogs 50lb braid. Fish with what you feel comfortable with. Don't get caught up in the trends, or dock talk. I'm very simple, but it works for me . Good luck!

[riceman]

Thanks for all the input. It seems for me, now, I can just get by with mono except for a few techniques where braid would be better. Concentrate on finding the fish and what they'll hit. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid or Simpy or Sally or,,,,,

[Dave Brabec]

Trilene XL green for mono. XL is extra limp I use mono on 2-6 lb rods. Way stronger breaking strength than 2-6 Flouro. I’m not a big braid to leader guy. 65 lb braid on at least 4 reels. 12-20 Invisx on everything else.

[WRB]

Maxima Ultra Green 5 lb Copolymer line is .008 D and stronger then most 8lb .010D mono, it’s my finesse spinning line for bass fishing for decades.
Trilene XL is smaller diameter per lb test then XT otherwise nearly if not the same line.
Tom

[nate50]

I use braid to a mono leader for everything. Maxima green mono is my go to. The braid helps with the sensitivity on long cast and finesse techniques. I also don’t have to worry about all the memory in the line, since I’m only using it as a leader.

Finesse set ups 20lb braid to mostly 10lb mono
Flippin/jigs 30lb braid to 15-18lb mono
Spinnerbaits/crankbaits 30lb braid to 12-15lb mono
Swimbaits/glides 65lb braid to 20-25lb mono

I’ve tried using fluoro as the leader but I seem to break off a lot more. I’m sure it’s all in my head but because of that I stick to mono.

[Sam K]

left the room. Can't go back. Braid to FL or either one straight just feel better to me. (UV braid to FL for nights.)
Using my mono for picture hanging now. 30# braid to 20 FL on Clearlake. Trying to go lighter on the leader here on Shasta.

[jiggin4bass]

My med heavy 6'6" spinning outfits 10 rods set up for both finesse and structure type fishing in and around rock brush bushes & trees with 4,6,8,10 lb green maxima. 1/8, 3/16,1/4, 3/8oz. Sizes and some 1/2 oz sizes
Med heavy 6'6"casting outfits 4 rods set up with 8,10 lb green maxima. 3/8, 1/2, 3/4oz sizes. For structure fishing.
My flippin sticks 7' 2 rods set up with green maxima 8,10 lb. 1/2, 3/4oz. Sizes For structure fishing

[Jeff C.]

An easy way to compare the stretch factor of different lines is to hang a weight from two identicle lengths of mono and FC. When you do this, it is clear that mono has more stretch. That's not to say though that the extra drag from mono isn't also affecting hookset and sensitivity.

When FC first came out, I tried to switch over to FC in all my rods but it seemed like line twist was a lot worse from FC on my spinning rods. I assume that's because of the extra stiffness of FC. Now I use standard Pline FC on most of my baitcasting setups but stick with Trilene XL on my spinning rods because I hate the increased line twist from Pline.

But I made that switch decades ago, is there limper FC out there now that doesn't cause the extra line twist on spinning reels?

[WRB]

All single filament (monofilament) polymer line will stretch time under pressure, it’s called cold flow. To test Nylon mono vs Fluorocarbon line the force applied should be applied in seconds not minutes or hours. Cold flow occurs when tying knots that flatten the line from to high forces and weaken over several hours. For this reason anglers should re tie knot often and never leave lures ties over night. Knots that cushion the line with snugged tight perform better with high knot strength.
The issue with spinning reels is the rotator bail wraps line around a fixed spool creating 1 twist with every rotation, the smaller diameter the spool the tighter the coil twist is.
FC line tend to yield under pressure taking a set called memory plus FC doesn’t wet shedding water, the twists falling off the+spool. FC requires a wetting agent like KVD line treatment or TangleFree. Nylon line wets normally it’s a hygroscopic polymer.
Braid also twist but being a multi fiber yard the twists take time to tighten into wind knots.
No panacea in fishing line, pick one you like.
Tom

[jiggin4bass]

Maxima Green line Im not and expert but
fishing is not rocket science either.

[WRB]

An easy way to compare the stretch factor of different lines is to hang a weight from two identicle lengths of mono and FC. When you do this, it is clear that mono has more stretch. That's not to say though that the extra drag from mono isn't also affecting hookset and sensitivity.

When FC first came out, I tried to switch over to FC in all my rods but it seemed like line twist was a lot worse from FC on my spinning rods. I assume that's because of the extra stiffness of FC. Now I use standard Pline FC on most of my baitcasting setups but stick with Trilene XL on my spinning rods because I hate the increased line twist from Pline.

But I made that switch decades ago, is there limper FC out there now that doesn't cause the extra line twist on spinning reels?

Seaguar Tatsu 6# FC is as good as it gets.
Tom

[riceman]

Lots to process but I think for now I'll try Jiggin4bass approach and keep it simple and budget friendly. Switch if I think it will help but have to learn to find and catch them first. Thanks for all the input and discussion.

[TonyM]

Braided line handles so much better on spinning reels. When you get tired of replacing FC or mono or the frustration of dealing with twists, give it a try and thank me later. It’s more expensive initially, but lasts so much longer. You can save money by having a tackle shop spool your reel for you with bulk line so you’re not buying more than you need. You’ll just have to learn a knot for connecting braid to a short leader of FC or mono. Not too difficult and easy once you do it a couple times. There’s a reason braid with topshots on spinning reels is so popular. It just works better in my opinion.

[jiggin4bass]

riceman send me your address in a PM and I send you a finesse starter kit of jigs plus 1 Blade bait. Trailers i use 4 " & 5 " double tail yamamoto grubs & 5" single tails grubs also.
I use 4" hollow body swimbait trailers on my blade baits.

[riceman]

Wow Jiggin4bass, thanks a bunch, very cool and generous of you.

[JL]

Wow Jiggin4bass, thanks a bunch, very cool and generous of you.

Yes! Ole jiggin is a stand up guy!

[jiggin4bass]

Riceman On grub trailers my top seven colors that I carry a lot of are.
Watermelon/red/black flake
Watermelon/black flake
Green pumpkin
Junebug
Black/blue flake
Cinnamon/blue flake
Root Beer/red/gold flake
But there are a few more colors I do carry and use.

[jiggin4bass]

riceman You have a PM

[ash]

Braided line handles so much better on spinning reels. When you get tired of replacing FC or mono or the frustration of dealing with twists, give it a try and thank me later. It’s more expensive initially, but lasts so much longer. You can save money by having a tackle shop spool your reel for you with bulk line so you’re not buying more than you need. You’ll just have to learn a knot for connecting braid to a short leader of FC or mono. Not too difficult and easy once you do it a couple times. There’s a reason braid with topshots on spinning reels is so popular. It just works better in my opinion.

Facts - with today's braid technology like Daiwia J-braid, Berkley X5, Suffix Nanobraid they are super strong and cast like silk. The improvement is no more line twists, casting further, lasts all season and increased sensitivity with a taut line. The con is tying a leader knot, but once you get one down its not bad, braid has a tendency to bow in the water, decreased sensitivity on a slack line. - but the pros outweigh the cons. I keep a spare spool with a leader tied in my tackle bag.

For Flurocarbon - it is expensive but hard to beat the quality fluros out there like PLine Tactical Assualt, Berkley 100% Suffix 100% - copolymer fluro is not worth it in my opinion your better off with a good quality Mono. Mono still has a place when you want that stretch, like a leader to an A-Rig, or Spook but for me Mono is now a niche line as Fluro and braid make up 90% of my line applications.

Yes, in 1985 Mono was king and 6'6 pistol grip rods were the rage but times have changed and understanding the changes in technology is crucial to make an informed opinion. Hell even Rick Clunn experiments with new technologies and he's been around since cane pole days

[jiggin4bass]

riceman if your and e everyday fisherman like myself you dont need braid or fluorocarbon line
Maximum fishing line is the best mono out there. I've been fishing light line for many years.
4,6,8,10 test I fish in rock and heavy cover like trees brush piles bushes grass with this same line. I've never had a problem breaking off a big fish. As for fishing deep there isn't a better mono for that. From 30 to 60 feet with 4,6,8 lb test in winter. Spinning outfits are my favorite also. Landing big fish has never been a problem for me both of my two biggest bass came on spinning outfits on 8 & 10 lbs maximum green.One on top water rico & the other lions collar jig. Keep it simple and just go fishing.
The jig and blade bait starter kit I'm sending is perfect for winter spring summer & fall fishing.

[riceman]

I think for now I'll keep it simple and maybe experiment with others lines later. For retirement I opted for a Ranger Z185 with a 150 instead of a 20' and 250HP ( saved thousands) could care less about 70MPH but rough water is a consideration for a bigger boat in time. It seems tournament fishing drives everything with regards to the sport. Funny, J4B listed all the necessities and costs associated with bass fishing earlier, well my wife and I are in Va. for a few weeks and went to a local MLF regional tourney weigh in yesterday. 195 boats and I figured $100,000 + per entry and that was close to 20 million dollars to chase a little green fish. Thing is "I get it", crazy.

Thanks again J4B for the jigs.

[jiggin4bass]

Your welcome riceman what im sending you should catch you some good bass

[jiggin4bass]

riceman you have a PM

[riceman]

Hey J4B, my wife and I are still back east but my daughter sent pics of the jigs and bladed jigs you sent. They looked awesome, she even thought they looked "cool". Again, thanks for your generosity truly appreciated.

[jiggin4bass]

riceman your welcome enjoy when you get back from your trip.
Be careful with the hooks on the blade baits are extremely sharp.

[tonyrobbins2020]

Yeah, a lot of people still use mono, especially for topwater baits, crankbaits, and some light setups. It’s cheap, easy to use, and has a little stretch, which can actually help in some situations.

[jiggin4bass]

MAXIMA GREEN is it hands down best mono out there.

[monte300]

Yeah, a lot of people still use mono, especially for topwater baits, crankbaits, and some light setups. It’s cheap, easy to use, and has a little stretch, which can actually help in some situations.

I’m a cranker and I don’t much like it on long casts too much stretch. I use braid no stretch and it’s great for stripping tules when I got hung up fishing heavy cover.

[ILW]

I still use for swimbaits and float N fly

[Drakestar]

There’s so much disinformation about fishing lines that seems impossible to eradicate. Here are some truths that you can verify via Google etc.

Fluorocarbon line is a monofilament. When we talk “mono vs fluoro”, we’re typically talking nylon monofilament vs fluorocarbon monofilament.

Fluorocarbon and nylon monofilaments have the same amount of stretch: typically somewhere between 10-20% depending on the composition. The idea that “mono has more stretch” is false. It depends on the line.

Fluorocarbon lines are denser than nylon monofilaments, which makes them transmit vibration better. Some anglers think fluoro is more sensitive because it has less stretch, but that’s not it.

Because fluorocarbon is denser, it absorbs less water. It sinks better and is more abrasion resistent. Knots slip a bit easier, though.

Fluorocarbon deforms, nylon monofilament does not: when you stretch your line past the deformation point (e.g. breaking free a snag), fluorocarbon will stay deformed (stretched past the original form) and it’s weakened. Nylon does not deform, and does not lose strength.

Both lines are equally visible under water. You will see a lot of articles (and marketing materials!) claim that fluoro is less visible because its refractive index is closer to water, but in practice - at the line diameters we’re fishing - this does not matter. There’s an actual mathematical proof you can dig up that shows this, or you can simply find many underwater comparisons. The only argument you could make is that fluorocarbon is a fraction smaller in diameter than nylon monofilament at the same breaking strength (and thus less visible) but those strength ratings so variable that it’s a hard to really embrace that point.

As far as line memory goes, the fluorocarbons that have less perceived memory are softer and have more stretch, so you’re making a tradeoff there.

So… what to use? If you’re doing bottom contact around sharp objects, fluorocarbon makes sense because of the additional abrasion resistence. But ideally you’ll want to retie your leader after a serious snag. In open water and soft bottom, nylon monofilament makes more sense.

In the end, everybody will fish what they want to fish, and the misinformation will not die To really read up on this takes time, but if you want a good summary, I’d start with https://activeanglingnz.com/2016/01/04/ ... rbon-myth/

[JL]

Drakestar! Thank you for the education. Much appreciated !

[WRB]

Agree monofilament means “single filament” originally labeled for Nylon or Nylon blends copolymer line. When Fluorocarbon line was introduced by Seaguar they separated FC line from “mono” for marketing claiming the line was low light refraction and invisible in water. Good marketing because FC sold for 3X price of “Mono”.
When Sunline came out with Shooter FC with 100 meter filler spools in lieu of 25 yard leader spools in the ‘90’s I jumped on the band wagon. Shooter was excellent line or jig fishing but was like a rattle snake with unpredictable knot failures using a Palomar knot. This weakness started the knot wars with several knots claiming stronger strength that continues to this day. It turns out 2 factors are at play; cold flow under pressure with knots tied over 24 hours and line deforming tying knots. If you twist the Palomar knot putting the loop over the hook or lure it weakens the knot severely with FC. A knot the cushions the line when clinch tight helps to solve the issue, San Diego Jam knot works good.
As noted most FC line is smaller diameter per per test vs mono, diameter is very important to consider selecting FC line.
Mono nd FC line yield around 30% of line strength. 12 lb test FC or mono doesn’t start to stretch (yield) until 4 lbs of force applied within seconds. 4 lbs is about the power a MH rod can lift, it’s a lot force.
Maxima UG is a copolymer line, Berkley Big Game is Nylon Mono both are more abrasion resisting the FC line with about equal memory. FC line needs a conditioner to stay wet to stay in the reel spool when casting.
I use FC for bottom contact lures and mono for moving lures. Braid is good for cutting through weeds, but poor around rocks and wood. There isn’t a panacea fishing line!
Tom

[monte300]

You got that right Tom, there’s no such thing as a perfect fishing line!

[JL]

Thank you as well Tom! Great information given here on this topic! This is what this forum used to be like. Good to see people helping each other!