Solutions to Team Tournaments decline?

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:08 am

Here are a few things for all of us to discuss, [nice please] to try and get the word across to the DFG and the Org's about what we can do to get more Teams to these trails. No matter what, my guess is that none are going to go away no matter how few teams show, so how about just trying to build on what we currently have. Here are a few of my ideas as to what MIGHT help.

1-no more than 6 events in any org's 1 region.
2-all the regions events must be spread out over a 8 month period from December-July Lets give the folks a break after the fishoffs to regroup.
3-no lake can have more than 1 event a weekend. The only exception being a Bass one day and a Trout the next. No special event baloney either. 1 bass event a weekend period.
4-There can only be 2 "special" event permits given out a year for lets say a 2 day or a big charity derby. Have a lottery or coin flip to see who gets them.
5- You cannot switch or change dates once you have a permit, mid season or ever.

What do you think? This should hopefully help IMHO.
Rick Grover

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:40 am

Why would a Organization change, they are not selling a physical item they had to pay a price and pass it along to the customer. They are offering an event that cost them nothing (except initial cost – scales, some bags and signs) and hoping to take a percentage off the top after paying prizes that they think will draw support (Anglers). Tournament Organization are run like StarBucks, McDonald’s, and Dunkin’ Donuts, they are franchise. So the more tournaments circuits that are schedule the more money for the Organization and if the circuits don’t draw the Anglers the Tournament Organization does not lose anything. It all falls on the TD and their circuit, the franchisee.

Changing DFG rules will not help – it will only hurt other type of events.

IMHO

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:31 pm

Back in the dark ages when I fished tournaments there were fewer circuits and we rotated the lakes we fished; you couldn't fish the same lake more than twice. Today you have too many circuits and fish the same 1 or 2 lakes. The problem becomes a few teams dominate each each lake, the number of teams willing to fish drop.
Instead of fishing 1 lake 5 times, try fishing 5 different lakes and the number of participants should increase due to the even playing field.
Tom

lobinaloca · Post by **lobinaloca** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:42 pm

Marty wrote:Why would a Organization change, they are not selling a physical item they had to pay a price and pass it along to the customer. They are offering an event that cost them nothing (except initial cost – scales, some bags and signs) and hoping to take a percentage off the top after paying prizes that they think will draw support (Anglers). Tournament Organization are run like StarBucks, McDonald’s, and Dunkin’ Donuts, they are franchise. So the more tournaments circuits that are schedule the more money for the Organization and if the circuits don’t draw the Anglers the Tournament Organization does not lose anything. It all falls on the TD and their circuit, the franchisee.

Changing DFG rules will not help – it will only hurt other type of events.

IMHO

X2

DL · Post by DL » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:56 pm

The housing market with inflated home values needs to come back. In my 5 years of being a staff member and Tournament Director, the biggest reason guys arent fishing is half of them are broke. Gone are the days of taking a second on a home and buying a new rig and fishing a derby every weekend from October through June.

Without naming the orgs in the south, we have 8 organizations...6 lakes...and 52 weekends....13 if which are the summer months..which leaves us with 39 weekends for roughly 75-90 derbies in the south, not counting night tournaments and clubs. If you include the two latter, we are looking at well over 100 events south of Ventura county. As soon as some organizations get tired of throwing good money after bad, things MIGHT change.

The question is how does one org draw 45 boats on a lake one week and the following week another draws 5, on the same body of water ??? Is it payouts, the TOC prize and destination, the TD, the org.? Who's to say why people fish one over the other? If the DFG felt it was detrimental to the fish, you bet your *** they would restrict tournaments. But organizations all pay the same amount for permits whether they draw 5 boats or 50. And we all know the DFG is slowly being rung out by politicians, and it seems the only real revenue they can generate is from Tournaments. The DFG does not depend on tournaments to sustain itself, or they would charge more for permits than they do.

I think the market is correcting itself slowly, and some are hanging on riding the storm hoping for better things in the future.

Fewer events=larger fields
Fewer orgs=larger fields
Larger fields=larger payouts

There is an easy fix but there is no easy way to get there...

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:41 pm

people just don't have the money to even just go fishing. I can remember just 4 years ago the line to get in on saturday or sunday mornig was looonnnngggggggggg!! now at opening there are maybe 10 boats Max unless a club is having a tournament. The economy is horrible and very few of us are lucky enough to be able to do what we love! The people in charge who can change things are just sucking the system dry. Politicians , lawyers, environmentalists etc...... I'm sure others could think of a few more. Heck Japan just experienced a cataclysm which will change the face of many things including fishing in the world we live in. Boldly, things just suck for a lot of people fisherman included!

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:58 pm

I agree with most of what has been said, but something that has not been mentioned is the rise of "rookie" leagues in California. It seems like the aformentioned effects of the recesion and the fact that rookie leagues tend to be approximately 50 dollars a tournament cheaper and also exclude certain people from fishing them, have caused a major decline in "pro-team" derbies, as people are being more cautious and careful about where they RISK their money. From what I've seen the 'rookie' derbies draw anywhere from 3-5 times the amount of boats that the typical 'pro-team' derby draws. Maybe I'm wrong.

-Andy

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:35 pm

A variety of things are at work here. Moronic water boards have taken away some lakes like Casitas. Other moronic water boards only allow certain engines on their lake, and if a seagull spits on a boat going up to a certain lake, it aint clean and dry anymore. People just don't wanna mess with this crap anymore. Economy is tough, tournaments have gotten more expensive, trips to the oil companies pocket book, I mean, the gas station, have become more expensive , etc....and of course there are just too many events out there. FOCL night events used to be noveltys, for example, now there are night tournaments all over the place.

Brian Linehan seems to have it down, at least in the So Cal region. Get a variety of lakes on your schedule, so there are not one lake wonders, have a ton of stuff to give away from the sponsors, so nobody goes home empty handed, have a bbq, and have a good payback. If and when I get back into team events on a real regular basis, that is the circuit I will be looking at first.

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Nope Andy....YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!!

There is surge in the FPT and the WRL because org's like WON, A/C & ABA preach about an "all-in" entry fee in the $250-$330 range. This amount is too much for the economy right now and these org's are reacting too slow to this FACT!!!!

There is no way that the "pro" team org's can compete unless they listen to their anglers and change their marketing strategy.

First, dump the membership fees or offer individual tournament memberships like FPT does. If you're not a FPT member, no sweat, pay $5 per angler and you can fish an individual event.

Next...reduce the "basic" entry fee to about $100-$125, payback 1-in-5 and keep the options simple...$20 big fish, maybe a $10 and that's it!!!!

Run their tournaments at $150-$170 ALL-IN and watch what happens.....

BOOM!!!!!

35-50 BOAT AVERAGES INSTEAD OF THE 15-25 THEY HAVE BEEN DRAWING THIS YEAR!!!!

Turkeyman · Post by **Turkeyman** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:57 pm

Scott Shambre wrote:Nope Andy....YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!!

next...reduce the "basic" entry fee to about $100-$125, payback 1-in-5 and keep the options simple...$20 big fish, maybe a $10 and that's it!!!!

Run their tournaments at $150-$170 ALL-IN and watch what happens.....

BOOM!!!!!

35-50 BOAT AVERAGES INSTEAD OF THE 15-25 THEY HAVE BEEN DRAWING THIS YEAR!!!!

+1

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:59 pm

I agree with Scott, and Andy 100%..

Why would anyone that can fish WRL, or FPT leave if they can play for less? They can play for less with a chance at a bigger payout!! And they can do this in a regulated system that doesn't allow Everyone to play. Cheaper buy in, less risk, bigger fields, bigger payouts! IMHO lower the teams cost, and some of those guys fishing the Rookies will step up.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:58 pm

g-man wrote:I agree with Scott, and Andy 100%..

Why would anyone that can fish WRL, or FPT leave if they can play for less? They can play for less with a chance at a bigger payout!! And they can do this in a regulated system that doesn't allow Everyone to play. Cheaper buy in, less risk, bigger fields, bigger payouts! IMHO lower the teams cost, and some of those guys fishing the Rookies will step up.

u'r crazy if you think the payouts are bigger....if a so called "pro team" org payed back the % these "rookie" orgs are, no one would show up...horrible!! and the "rookie" circuits are where all the teams went..each year these orgs up the money guidelines, so most "rookie" guys dont have to move on...we have talked about this on here a million times, so no need to get into it again

"FACT",,,,, most, so called, "pro team" guys, like to fish for a big payback..so having a $100 entry wont solve a thing..you might pick up a couple teams who like it, but you will lose more teams in the long run..if u'r payback sucks because you have a $100 entry, once an org comes around w/a bigger entry and "bigger" payback, u'r done.....

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:13 pm

Mr. Manzo, I think what was implied by G-man's claim is that due to the fact that the fields are much larger, the payback is bigger, which is true. I don't think anyone here said that the percentage paid back is good, or even mentioned anything pertaining to the "rookie" derbies other than the fact that a lot of people fish those as opposed to stepping up, because of the previous reasons mentioned. We all like fishing for a big payback, rookie, pro, novice etc etc. Having said that, I see no reason for your post?

-Andy

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:31 pm

Andy Lippert wrote:Mr. Manzo, I think what was implied by G-man's claim is that due to the fact that the fields are much larger, the payback is bigger, which is true.

-Andy

Yes, exactly!

BIG L · Post by **BIG L** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:23 am

It looks to me like some orgs. are drawing larger fields due to rule changes in other orgs rules. I for one am not going to continue paying out the same amount and get penalized points towards there travelers for only 9 boats showing up and no comps for angler of the year unless they draw 10 boats, when they don,t put the comp. money in the next years payout at the tournament you are comp. I don't feel its my fault they draw 15 boats in one and draw 8 in the next. I normally fish at least 25 tournaments in this org a year, this year it looks like that # will be 9 and next year 0. I will still fish 40 tournaments a year but with other orgs. The other orgs. will increase as one decreases, Some will eventually die off, and you will get your wish for bigger fields.

acm95301 · Post by **acm95301** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:51 am

When It came time to make a decision this year for my tournament participation , I only needed a small number of factors to steer my participation.

1. Region........costs money and time to travel
2. cost...........I'm broke.
3. I'm still new....I'm trying to get into the top ten, but so far I'm still a mid field guy. Doesnt make sense to fish the big tournaments.
4. Schedule....I work Sunday and Monday for a 48hrs shift. So I need either Friday or Saturday one day tournaments.

So I considered, FPT, AC-WRL, Nor-Cal, ABA, Christian Bass League and CBC

Ultimately I choose AC-WRl, and so far the motherlode region has had massive participation...90-95boats.

eric n · Post by **eric n** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:10 am

For me its the quagga issue.If there was a state or even a county system to monitor where your boat has been i would fish derbies again.I know...fat chance.
Being locked onto one lake sucks,add to that rain and cold weather and it takes weeks to dry your boat out.Ive been turned around before the derby and a few other times as well.Sorry ,i have better things to do then get up at 4am,drive to lake and not be allowed in.
OR.....have a half off boat sale and bring in some new blood.lol.Hope the show was good for you Rick.

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:13 am

I have never been able to grasp why percentage of payback is all that important in deciding which tournaments to fish..I know all the "pros" desire a 100% payback and most insist on it, even though only a handful will reap the benefits each tournament..Personally if I happen to win a tournament and get more money back than I paid in, I don't see a real big problem..The people organizing and staging the tournament have a right to make money also..

mac

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:35 am

Andy Lippert wrote:Mr. Manzo, I think what was implied by G-man's claim is that due to the fact that the fields are much larger, the payback is bigger, which is true. I don't think anyone here said that the percentage paid back is good, or even mentioned anything pertaining to the "rookie" derbies other than the fact that a lot of people fish those as opposed to stepping up, because of the previous reasons mentioned. We all like fishing for a big payback, rookie, pro, novice etc etc. Having said that, I see no reason for your post?

-Andy

no reason for my post

people asked where all the teams went...i answered that... people also "think" because the "rookie" has more teams, the payback is larger.. i answered that also.... and the paybacks are "not".... 90 boats @ "rookie" event..1st was over $3k....50 boats @ "pro" event..1st place was a couple hundred more...a $100 more entry and half the field. i am only comparing the motherlode orgs, that is where i run my events.....hopefully you see a reason for the post andy

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:18 pm

i think its the money. most people just dont have it.

Brin linahan is doing so well for a couple reasons he is promoting his circuit HARD and he is also taking great care of his anglers. every tournamnet has had pictures that take care of both anglers and sponsers. most tournament orgs dont do enough for thier sponsers, again it my opion and i have not ran a circuit but i have fished a ton, most orgs will thank thier sponsers at the end of the tournament and thats about it, Brian has gone the extra mile to put thier products in pictures for everyone to see and he is always looking for ways to help his sponsers. now with that said think of this as a sponser, what tournament circuit are you going to sponser!

Two how many times do you see winners up on this post, which has over a million hits a month, again do the math! he is taking care of his anglers!

another tournament director that is on it is! Tony Cap with his summer cachuma cuircut he shells out more money for tri tip and beer than he makes but everyone who fishies this cuircut has a blast. he bends over backwards to give us anglers a good time. sorry i had to edit this in but it woulkd be wrong not to mention what he does for his anglers.
with that being said lets get to busness the way things are ran is going to have to changed, yes we need an low entry field to bring folks into and give them time to grow as an angler, i am just like a lot of you i donate more than I should. but the number of team tournaments is sky high and the entrys are 300$ avarage, its time to keep it simple, i can damn near fish a pro am for 300 (WON BASS), or i can fish Anglers choice for 600 and take a shot at more money but its my choice. we need low, middle, and high, in this case the high sould be the BASS open or FLW, but every one wants to get rich so the circuits will not work or play nice with each other.
bottom line guys, you the circuit owners need to get together and get it worked out.
until the numbers of tournaments come down the entry numbers numbers will not go up. it simple figure out how much money was shelled out last year in all of your tournaments, that number should be fairly constant with the simple fact that most of the folks that are not fishing have already do so. now divide that into the total tournaments all of you had, your not gona like the numbers! thats the capatil you have to work with for the next several years now divide that up between each circuit (and folks its not gona get better anytime soon) the hard part is most of the san deago lake are infected thats one area, DV is full of it for thier inspection requirements, casitas is just plan stupid, and cachuma is not far behind, it does not leave enough lakes to handle the pressure (and I just might learn how to spell one of these days) me/we the anglers are the lucky ones we can pick and chose and if you make us mad, your out the door and now its in your court to bring me back in and you will have to work twice as hard.

ok i have rambled enough

Walt Kondracki

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:31 pm

jrbasspro wrote:i think its the money. most people just dont have it.

Brin linahan is doing so well for a couple reasons he is promoting his circuit HARD and he is also taking great care of his anglers. every tournamnet has had pictures that take care of both anglers and sponsers.

I have not fished Brians tourneys, and don't know him, but I totally agree with you on this! He takes the time to promote, posts pics of winners, sponsor products, everything. Giving his anglers exposure is a huge plus IMO!

brian johnson · Post by **brian johnson** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:54 pm

NBW draws a big crowd every tournament mike & lynn do a great job running the derbys and there pay back is second to none anglers choice will be right there with NBW brian runs a great derby to. with the best tackle raffle in the state thats the reason no other orgs get's the boats they do, money sucks,bbq sucks, the rest of the tourney directors act like there doing us a favor almost like ther mad that they had to get up that morning to be there.won has 4 comp boats??? and 1 paid entry is that some kind of joke iam surprised they didnt vote and ask all the comp guys. pretty sad the day a WON derby can only draw 5 boats to dvl. someone might want to look alittle deeper into that. well keep up the great work mike,lynn,and brian your derbys kick ***

ruger123 · Post by **ruger123** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:14 pm

Well I can tell you hands down, the rookie league tournaments have destroyed the pro team tournaments. I beleive that organizations like anglers choice should maybe regroup next year and just have team tournaments. Dont make a seperation like rookie or pro, keep the price as same as a rookie league tournament and let everyone come and play. Lets face it, none of us are pro's except kvd or skeet, I don't know very many pros making a living from fishing team tournaments. All you have to do is look at the recent turnout in anglers choice pro team and that will show you, last tournament had 4 boats very sad. Anglers choice used to be one of the best circuits to fish untill the rookie league tournaments started.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:32 pm

brian johnson wrote:NBW draws a big crowd every tournament mike & lynn do a great job running the derbys and there pay back is second to none anglers choice will be right there with NBW brian runs a great derby to. with the best tackle raffle in the state thats the reason no other orgs get's the boats they do, money sucks,bbq sucks, the rest of the tourney directors act like there doing us a favor almost like ther mad that they had to get up that morning to be there.won has 4 comp boats??? and 1 paid entry is that some kind of joke iam surprised they didnt vote and ask all the comp guys. pretty sad the day a WON derby can only draw 5 boats to dvl. someone might want to look alittle deeper into that. well keep up the great work mike,lynn,and brian your derbys kick ***

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:04 pm

I don't think the "Rookie" teams have killed the "Pro" team circuts. I think the the way organization have broke down their regions and killed the "Pro" team circuts. The "Rookie" teams fish a few different bodies of water where the "Pro" teams are focused on usually one body of water. And you have some guys who spend 4 to 5 days a week on one body of water. No way am I going to pay more money to fish against those guys. Just my .02!

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:08 pm

Consider this:

From where I'm sitting, what's happening isn't a decline in 'team tournament' participation in California. Its a decline in interest and participation in 'competitive angling' in general. The Pro Ams are drawing fewer and fewer participants as well. Sure there are a couple 'semi-pro' leagues that are drawing good numbers, but even some of them are down from previous years and/or are maintaining levels as opposed to real strong growth of their fields. At the same time I think I see more and more folks actually fishing for bass in the state, just not necessarily entering tournaments.

Everyone's heard potential reasons for it; too many events, too many orgs, just too much and not necessarily at price points that make the investments worth while for a lot of potential anglers. Lots of folks have opinions one way or another.

The real reason may be just a simple one. Most everyone's been complaining about tournament circumstances for a long, long time, but none of the orgs have truly responded and made the significant changes that were being begged for my their now former customers. Guys are still fishing in a lot of cases. Their just not doing it in tournaments.

Ignore your customers long enough and they'll eventually go somewhere else or simply go do something else.

Sure the economy has had its impact, but this tournament slide started a while ago, pre-dates the economic woes, and it continues on because no one is doing anything to turn the tide and change things. Real change.

sTony

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:20 pm

And before we condemn the semi pro leagues, keep in mind that those orgs are building more and more stronger competitors in these big fields that they're drawing. I'm sure Vince and Randy and some of the guys running those events would welcome having large fields pro team events out there to be graduate on their better competitors in to. But it's hard to look at a guy, gal or team and tell them they have to move to small field events that are 2 to 3 times the expense and where you can win the same type of money but risk much more because the pro teams can't get their acts together to draw better fields.

The semi-pros are effective and are doing their jobs well in the marketplace, but the pro teams are a convoluted mess and no one's fixing it.

sTony

PS - I'd add, with the current conditions/circumstances for anglers in SoCal, bringing semi pro events there would be the nail in the Pro Team coffin down there forever. The market is simply not strong or expansive enough to accommodate too much. Not in the current environment anyway.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:04 pm

sTony wrote:Guys are still fishing in a lot of cases. Their just not doing it in tournaments.

What??? Do you mean people are just fishing for fun and doing it purely for the recreational aspect? Why, that's unheard of!!!

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:09 am

sTony wrote:And before we condemn the semi pro leagues, keep in mind that those orgs are building more and more stronger competitors in these big fields that they're drawing. I'm sure Vince and Randy and some of the guys running those events would welcome having large fields pro team events out there to be graduate on their better competitors in to. But it's hard to look at a guy, gal or team and tell them they have to move to small field events that are 2 to 3 times the expense and where you can win the same type of money but risk much more because the pro teams can't get their acts together to draw better fields.

The semi-pros are effective and are doing their jobs well in the marketplace, but the pro teams are a convoluted mess and no one's fixing it.

sTony

PS - I'd add, with the current conditions/circumstances for anglers in SoCal, bringing semi pro events there would be the nail in the Pro Team coffin down there forever. The market is simply not strong or expansive enough to accommodate too much. Not in the current environment anyway.

In So. Cal I have seen growth in the resurgence of Bassclubs for sure. Maybe that is their semi pro league. But these org's just seem to continue to beat the crap out of the fishermen with events piled on top of events all the time. The perfect example is the fact that there is a 2 day team event this weekend at Havasu that normally should have drawn 50 plus boats but has less than 30. It is the weekend before the WON Bass pro-am and I am sure there are folks that had to make a choice on which to fish. Unless you live there and have minimal travel expense, that is a 2K cost for 2 weeks fishing for a so cal traveler. Maybe a few of those guys would have TRIED the Pro-Am instead if they were not on top of each other? Maybe just 1 big event a month at that lake? Another thing that really seems important to me is that there must be sponser stability and a guaranteed prize at the TOC. There is lots of Gray area out there lately and that seems to be a turnoff for some also. Rick G.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:26 am

We live in a world of "gray area." There is no silver bullet fix. The econoy is obviously a huge factor and I think Tony hit the nail on the head when he said that there's less interest in tournament fishing.

I would guarantee that if I ran a $50 "all-in" derby we'd still have small turnouts so it's not all about rookie leagues, lower entry fees and such. I think people are just tired of the status quo and donating to a few select teams every tournament. More than the cost of the derbies, I think people won't enter because they don't want to donate to a the couple of hot teams on every lake. That is a HUGE factor and shouldn't be downplayed.

Wish I could say there was, but there's no easy fix. It's
going to come down to good old fashioned hard work and effort to grow the sport in these times.

Brian

Rob Dickson · Post by **Rob Dickson** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:00 am

People just don't have the money to fish them all. So the orgs are making people pick and choose whats best for them. Way too many tournaments are being put on with too many conflicts. Same people usually winning so people don't feel like donating 300 bucks. Some orgs need to disappear or stop letting their ego's get in the way and work together. Prime example National bass has a two day at diamond the same day aba has an inland empire perris derby so now that is going to kill the perris turnout not that it's that big, but it will be a few probably with me included. Probably kiss aoy title away this year at perris. Then national bass has diamond open may 1 and aba has perris tourney april 30. Not everyone has two boats so your forced to pick which tourney because of the clean and dry. The Team tourney scene in socal sucks plain and simple. I think dfg needs to step in and limit the number of tourneys, but that might cut into their revenue.

JohnnyG1 · Post by **JohnnyG1** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:46 pm

all of you have good points. This is for the guys that don't think that rookie league tournaments should be around. Some of the anglers that fish the rookie leagues have never fished a tournaments in their life. As a pro would you want them in your way at blast off not sure if the guy in the other boat can drive a bass boat or know what he needs to do before blast off and at weigh-in ? This is why we need the rookie leagues give new tourny guys a hands on training. Then move up when they feel comfortable of confident enough. I think all the orgs need to get together and form one large organizations and have 3 levels Rookie, semi pro and pro and have 3 TOC's and your done. Just my .02

DeltaBassBuster · Post by **DeltaBassBuster** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:11 pm

I'd love to be able to fish tounaments again especailly team, but as I've read above about economic times prices to enter are high. To me "The Pay Off" isn't every thing I feel the fun of competition and making new friends on the water is more important. Also to be willing to help others to become better bass fisherman and to promote this great sport to the younger generations. I really wish they had the college league fishing back in the day because maybe I would have reconsidered joining the military and gotten a bass fishing college scholarship.

FATGUY · Post by **FATGUY** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:45 am

its mostly a money thing. one thing that has been mentioned and i've brought up over the last few years is having to pay a yearly membership fee. i fish one cicuit each year and at times saw a tourney or two that was in a different circuit that i would have like to fish but was told you have to pay the yearly membership fee ??? not me .. like someone mentioned why not just add a penalty say $5 if you are not a member?? i've mentioned this to a couple td
s and have been told " you just don't understand how things work " ?? oh well i still think the economy including the price of gas is a big reason ???? just an old guys .02 BOB G

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:12 am

BOB G wrote: like someone mentioned why not just add a penalty say $5 if you are not a member?? i've mentioned this to a couple tds and have been told " you just don't understand how things work " ??

Well... Just look at the majority of the turnouts, it's obvious that they "know how thing work" NOT!!!

one fish wonder · Post by **one fish wonder** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:26 am

BOB G wrote:its mostly a money thing. one thing that has been mentioned and i've brought up over the last few years is having to pay a yearly membership fee. i fish one cicuit each year and at times saw a tourney or two that was in a different circuit that i would have like to fish but was told you have to pay the yearly membership fee ??? not me .. like someone mentioned why not just add a penalty say $5 if you are not a member?? i've mentioned this to a couple td
s and have been told " you just don't understand how things work " ?? oh well i still think the economy including the price of gas is a big reason ???? just an old guys .02 BOB G

Good suggestion. For each tournament you fish, if you are not a member, than you pay a $15 fee and any event after you enter until the membership is paid. This might help!

CN · Post by CN » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:20 pm

I think the biggest factor is people like myself and many I know just have no interest in fishing Tournament's. I also think the Membership can come into play.

Example: I would try a few at Nacimiento because I know the Lake pretty good and dont feel I need to pre-fish so if I could just show up and pay to play I would.

We all know the Economy is a big factor but I think that is just keeping the guy's that did fish them away not the people sitting on the fence. Good luck your going to need it.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:21 pm

This quagga situation is a big factor for me, heck I have fished more this season not fishing derbies than when I dedicated my whole season to one lake. I have fished 4 times in the last 7 days because the bite has been so good. The point im trying to make is that we have way too many great lakes here in so cal to put all your eggs in one basket. There is GIANT bass in a lot of lakes around here that get minimal pressure and to miss those key windows is just not worth it for me. There has been a few derbies this season where I was going to hook up and go fish, Especially the winter derbies that fell on weekends with EXCELLENT swimbait conditions, but to get up at 3am go grab the boat and run to the lake knowing in the back of your head there is a great chance you dont even get on the lake at all sucks. The only remedy is to be locked in on that one lake and then rule out every other lake in so cal. I have only one boat so it makes my decision pretty easy.

There has to be some other factors out there. I heard the line at DVL sat was all the way out to Domenigoni but the derby field does not reflect it. Its just an uphill battle it seems.

Paul Matthews · Post by **Paul Matthews** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:32 pm

Allstars in Az just drew 88 boats at Rosy. It isn't cheap either 520 if you roll the dice. A TOC 2 day event at 2 lakes with a guarnteed $10,00 1'st place pay out plus options. No other org. here is drawing more than 30 boats. Reason, Sneed dropped the membership and got a comittment from a sponsor for the 10 grand. Only a percentage of teams will qualify. ABA needs to drop that membership, but we all know Plots has his way or the highway.

tbob · Post by **tbob** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:59 pm

I think the one day membership is a good idea, but $15 is too much, as our membership is only $20 for a year aand you also get a $5.00 bad of good Canyon Lure baits and a $12 pack of Trokar hooks, and some other things too. For a $45 membership you also WON / WON BASS (which at $25 more is a bargain as it's usually $39.95).

So effective as of today WON BASS will offer a one tournament membership. $5.00 will cover it, but I don't think we can track how many times you do it, or know when to send the gifts. So the $5 would be just for guys who don't wan to commit and just buy a one tournament deal. This deal will not be retroactive, or can we give refunds to anyone who has recently signed up, as it isn't my intent to cause problems for the staff. But going forward if there are any anglers who want to buy a one tournament membership we will honor it.

I think the WON BASS membership that we offer is a great deal with the membership package the sales guys put together, as is the WON pricing. But if this helps to get guys to come out and fish we'll do what it takes to make that happen.

I hope this helps.

Bob Twilegar

Jim V. · Post by **Jim V.** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:46 pm

I've pretty much given up fishing organized tournaments, It just wasn't "fun" any longer. The participants were more & more cliquish and not only did the top teams not share general info about their success, they often wouldn't say anything. Except for a few night tournaments & clubs - just fun fishing is a whole lot more relaxing & enjoyable. Isn't that what the sport is also about?

And what is the point of having to pay a "membership" fee anyway? And since WON brought it up, $5 for one tournament - for what, the privilege of fishing your tournament? If that's what is holding participation down, why have a "membership" fee at all. That should then increase participation, right?

I don't really think so. There are numerous reasons why tournament participation is down, not the least of which is money. And there are too many organizations with too many tournaments trying to attract the same core group of anglers which is declining, not growing.

BTW, $45 for WON's paper is no bargain - IMHO.

jg · Post by jg » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:50 pm

I would think the memberships are fine for the guys trying to qualify for a orgs championship. But this time of year it would be nice to just pick and choose some other tourneys to fish without paying a membership when you have no chance (or want) of making a championship. It would seem that the tourney directors would like this as they get a cut from the number of boats. But in the long run there are just to many orgs out there and no one wants to give up there piece of the pie.

toddmc · Post by **toddmc** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:05 am

Less tournaments=less beat up fish=more bites from healthier fish=more reason to go fishing. DVL is beat to death and I think Rick's ideas could help this lake in particular. Almost everybody seems to make good points here.
I can only cherry pick a few tournaments because my wife and I have a newborn and two year old that need our attention. So,I like not having to pay for a membership if I can only fish here and there.

tbob · Post by **tbob** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:52 am

Jim

You do not want to buy the newspaper, but a lot of poeple sure do and based on our WON renewal rate. They enjoy it, so we gave our WON BASS a SPECIAL PRICE that is not made available to our regular readers. It's entirely your choice to add in WON.

If it is not be something you want,buy the $20 annual membership and get the free tackle stuff along with your membership, or you can use the new $5 one-day tournaemnt membership option. We are just trying to listen to what you want and to respond.

You seem to be saying that this isn't a great deal, but it is if you compare it to what we did in the past or to the membership offers that are a requirement and any other organization. You will pay (up to) $45 for each team member, plus insurance fees, plus lake fees, or up to $105.00 on top of your entry fee to fish some local team events. You can now enter a WON BASS tournament and only spend $5, or possibly $10 for a team (if either is alredy a team members). There are no other fees at WON BASS events.

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:33 pm

tbob wrote:I think the one day membership is a good idea, but $15 is too much, as our membership is only $20 for a year aand you also get a $5.00 bad of good Canyon Lure baits and a $12 pack of Trokar hooks, and some other things too. For a $45 membership you also WON / WON BASS (which at $25 more is a bargain as it's usually $39.95).

Bob Twilegar

i signed up for my WONbass membership this weekend at Casitas, $20. Do you get the canyon baits and hooks and such at the derby or in the mail? Hoping mail cuz I didn't get anything at the derby.

From my stand point in fishing here in So-Cal i have a few reasons :

Quagga Standards- No lake honors each others tags, unless you talk about Cachuma, Piru and a few other Central Cal lakes.

Money- Face it...a lot of people don't have 300+ a week to donate to the same guys on the same lakes. Jobs, cut hours, cut pay...you name it.

Short and to the point...that's my reasons!

Eric

tbob · Post by **tbob** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:39 pm

Eric

The membership packages are sent out from the home office as it stands now. It's a part of the tournaemnt reporting process. But it make sense to do it onsite, for those that sign up at the tournaments, so I will see if we can do it.

Ashley will be getting the new ones in th email soon, or at least right after we fishing up with the Havasu Pro Am this weekend. I will ask about your membership specifically and to do everyone else from Casitas and the Delta, where we also had many new members last weekend.

You can call Ashley with any questions you might have, or to purchase or check on a membership, or a tournament at 949-366-0030 ext 38

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:35 pm

Bob,

Thanks for that... i appreciate the quick answer!

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:19 pm

National Bass West has no membership fee tournaments often.
Guy Williams

DeltaBound · Post by **DeltaBound** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:16 pm

eric n wrote:For me its the quagga issue.If there was a state or even a county system to monitor where your boat has been i would fish derbies again.I know...fat chance.
Being locked onto one lake sucks,add to that rain and cold weather and it takes weeks to dry your boat out.Ive been turned around before the derby and a few other times as well.Sorry ,i have better things to do then get up at 4am,drive to lake and not be allowed in.
OR.....have a half off boat sale and bring in some new blood.lol.Hope the show was good for you Rick.

Same here. You would think that once a boat has been inspected and locked down you could go to any lake and use the same exact procedure. That would be much more efficient in the fight against these little creatures. It really is rediculous, I haven't fished Casitas in a few years, I'm not dragging my boat to Casitas just to turn around and wait 10 days and fish only that lake. I would love to fish tourneys on the big C again.

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