South Calif. flooding..

jimmyG · Post by **jimmyG** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:20 pm

As I watch on the news all the rain and flooding going on in Southern Calif., I wonder why there is no flood control reservoirs and impoundments to retain that water for future annual use? Has real estate become so expensive that the politicians can't dam up canyons to make these reservoirs? Wouldn't it be less expensive to build dams and reservoirs down south than build a peripheal canal and pump stations up north to go down south? There are some years that SoCal recieves more water than NoCal. Just wondering. Maybe B. Obama reads Westerbnbass.

smpboy · Post by **smpboy** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:43 pm

i dont get it either all that water goes right back in to the ocean

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:00 am

JimmyG,
I agree completely.
Planning ahead doesn't get people elected, or reelected.
I bet those dams that Arnold proposed look pretty good right about now.
Instead of killing the Delta, why not save some of that water in reservoirs before it runs off to the sea?
Building water infrastructure like that would make jobs, and insure that California agriculture, which has the potential to feed the world in these global warming times, survives without killing off the Delta.
I still think building a pipeline from the Mississippi to Lake Powell, and rewatering the Colorado River, is the long term solution. The West would be green forever.
But dams and reservoirs are a needed first step.

maxe · Post by **maxe** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:28 am

I've always wondered the same thing. I would think there is big money in capturing all the run off. Here in Oxnard they are laying down infrastructure to capture the run off and process it enough to pump into the groundwater and SELL the excess as potable water. Too bad it's not up and running yet, this storm would have been a good gauge of what they will capture. If every city along the coast did this it would take alot of pressure off of the current water delivery system. We will see if they make enough money off it so other cities take notice and want to do the same.

flipit · Post by **flipit** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am

Seems most of us think the same thing. It would be very logical to build some extra water storage dams/lakes in So Cal. If nothing else they could be filled by the water that the Nor Cal lakes dump to make room for these winter storm rains like now. Instead of flooding the Delta with wasted water in the winter, then draining it in the summer and fall. It seems like such a logical solution, perhaps that is why it doesnt happen.

madddogg · Post by **madddogg** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:19 am

Not gonna happen when they can get it from Norcal for dirt cheap.

ash · Post by **ash** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:49 am

They should just damn up the bottom of Laguna Canyon and let her flood, then we could all go fish Lake Faguna.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:03 am

Well, I say no more lakes!!! Why? Because then we'd have to add more team regions to the mix. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TritonBrent · Post by **TritonBrent** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:07 am

No need to retain their water, they can have all of ours

Todd Dunlap · Post by **Todd Dunlap** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:19 am

Well, I say no more lakes. Why? Because then we'd have to add more team regions to the mix. lol
Brian,You are killing me!LMAO!So TRUE!!!!!!

WON BASSIN · Post by **WON BASSIN** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:41 am

Prado is now big enough for a full field. Chino anyone?

I for one am just about rained out. I left Shasta at 12:00 PM on Friday and it rained the whole way home and has not stopped since. I am over my windshield whippers. My garage is flooded, and I'm just about out of dry jackets!

Hope everyone has a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:03 am

You too Bill!

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:26 am

I think the enviromaniacs make it hard to build dams. They are worried about dams and dont want the big bodies of water, They would rather have a small seasonal creek.

Rich

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:54 am

They should hunt environmentalists with dogs. They have blocked every reasonable power and water project including dams and nuclear since the Woodstock days. Someday when people are rioting over food and water I hope they are the first to go.

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:57 am

Always a good question, and certainly some telling replies. Plus, we all have 20/20 hindsight when it comes to population distribution.

But here's another thought. SoCal, by definition, is a desert. I have a couple of posts (Dec. 21-22) and some pix of the current flow on the San Jacinto River and they are the highest in 94 years of recording...and some analysts are saying this is the most concentrated rain in 150 years in this area. Pretty hard to predict where to build a reservoir, back then. And today, where to build one that's not on an earthquake fault. http://kramergonefishing.com/2010/12/22 ... st-photos/

Anyway, best Christmas/holiday to all,

gk

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:38 am

I tell you what - we have been getting hammered here in Escondido all night long. I put a 5 gallon bucket outside that I was using to drain a flooded area in our yard. The bucket was empty at 7:00 pm last night. This morning, it had 7 inches of water in it.

Lake Hodges is about 3 miles from where I live on I-15. I drove by on Monday and you could barely see the lake from I-15. I drove out at 5:30 AM to take my wife to work in my truck due to the hazardous driving conditions and the water is all the way back past the I-15 bridge now. The lake will likely be going over the spillway If the rain keeps up in this manner for another 12 hours. I just wish that DVL and many other lakes could pick up water this quickly.

And as far as the flooding in Chino goes, we already pulled the permits for a new Raahauges Team trail called the cast and blast trail

Just kidding of course - DFG will only allow Archery Carp derbies on this new body of water.

ash · Post by **ash** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:43 am

All this talk about flooding reminds me of a great song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

" Learn to Swim - See you down in Arizona Bay "

BUCKBASS · Post by **BUCKBASS** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:15 pm

Santa Ana river running high wide and handsome you didn't we had a river in Southern Cal

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:28 pm

They will never ever build and more dams down here because the enviromentalist will never agree. They would rather save a lizard, bird or some plant then make sure we have enough water to drink. There is enough water running down the Santa Ana river to keep us supplied for years yet it all is wasted running into the ocean. Cant believe some dude has not tried goin down that river in a Kayak yet. Rick G.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:10 pm

Probably for fear of getting stuck with a needle or gang raped by a pack of bums.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:40 pm

Rick,
One of the biggest opponents of the peripheral canal is now a big supporter of the new canal idea.
Why? Because he found out that, without water, making a living in CA is almost impossible.
I don't see the population getting smaller any time soon.
So they'll have to address the storage issue, or there won't be enough water for agriculture or people.

tALLkAN · Post by **tALLkAN** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:21 pm

Rick G wrote:They will never ever build and more dams down here because the enviromentalist will never agree. They would rather save a lizard, bird or some plant then make sure we have enough water to drink. There is enough water running down the Santa Ana river to keep us supplied for years yet it all is wasted running into the ocean. Cant believe some dude has not tried goin down that river in a Kayak yet. Rick G.

i float tubed it a couple hours ago...it wasnt that bad.

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:48 am

madddogg wrote:Not gonna happen when they can get it from Norcal for dirt cheap.

And that is the truth and the rest of the story. Bill K

Bass Pro Shopper · Post by **Bass Pro Shopper** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:51 am

At least Castaic is way up. It wasn't this high 24 hours ago. I think it went up several feet in that time. Thank you, storm!
http://www.castaiclake.com/webcam.html

fishingfamily · Post by **fishingfamily** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:19 am

ash wrote:All this talk about flooding reminds me of a great song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

" Learn to Swim - See you down in Arizona Bay "

Thats my driving through La song.Great band

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:13 pm

Offduty Rich is right and the rest of you need to get a clue. Environmental wackos run this state and most are located or from Northern California. Here is a good example for you. The City of San Diego filed an emergency petition to drain Qualcomm stadium (where the Chargers and others play football here in San Diego) so the Poinsettia Bowl can be played tonight. A wacko law firm called Coast Law Group files a petition to stop the draining of the field as it will dump in to the San Diego river. Basically a cesspool drainage a little more pristine than the Delta. This rain is abnormal so building dams to capture this run-off would not be economically feasible. If it was some weirdo would decide a microorganism is more important than the human population.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:11 pm

Robert F wrote:Offduty Rich is right and the rest of you need to get a clue. Environmental wackos run this state and most are located or from Northern California. Here is a good example for you. The City of San Diego filed an emergency petition to drain Qualcomm stadium (where the Chargers and others play football here in San Diego) so the Poinsettia Bowl can be played tonight. A wacko law firm called Coast Law Group files a petition to stop the draining of the field as it will dump in to the San Diego river. Basically a cesspool drainage a little more pristine than the Delta. This rain is abnormal so building dams to capture this run-off would not be economically feasible. If it was some weirdo would decide a microorganism is more important than the human population.

They'd be from SoCal not NorCal, from their website:

Coast Law Group is a community-conscious law firm providing innovative solutions and practical advice to assist clients in achieving their personal goals and business objectives. From the individual to the small business, from the non-profit to the Fortune 500 company, CLG delivers uncompromised legal representation founded upon core values of integrity, efficiency, and aggressive advocacy.

1140 South Coast Highway 101. Encinitas, CA 92024 | Phone: 760-942-8505 | Fax: 760-942-8515

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:47 pm

I think it is safe to say that the enviromaniacs are from one end of this state to the other. Personally I am not supporting any environmentalist organizations as I feel they have way to much power and are an underlying problem, They cant get it through their thick skulls that the environment must evolve along with the people. They are stuck tying to save everything from the past and bring back species that are to far gone to save, They care more about bugs and frogs than people.

Rich

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:15 pm

sTony wrote:They'd be from SoCal not NorCal, from their website:

Coast Law Group is a community-conscious law firm providing innovative solutions and practical advice to assist clients in achieving their personal goals and business objectives. From the individual to the small business, from the non-profit to the Fortune 500 company, CLG delivers uncompromised legal representation founded upon core values of integrity, efficiency, and aggressive advocacy.

1140 South Coast Highway 101. Encinitas, CA 92024 | Phone: 760-942-8505 | Fax: 760-942-8515

Tony, Unfortunately we know exactly where they are located. Their last action was against the group that puts on the fireworks show on San Diego Bay. They felt the show would pollute the bay and cause harm to our other pristine habitat. The same one that the Navy scrapes the paint off ships and has dumped chemicals and heavy metals in to for decades. I would like to see them take that money they waste on frivolous actions and spend it for public good rather than public harassment.

True, true there are wackos here. Maybe more. Unfortunately they often outweigh common sense. Just like the ideas pitched above. We have many water projects down here built in optimum run-off collecting locations. It has to rain before the water can run-off and it just doesn't happen too often. We received 2/3rds of our annual average rainfall in the past 5 days. That would be the reason there was flooding.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:30 pm

offduty wrote:I think it is safe to say that the enviromaniacs are from one end of this state to the other. Personally I am not supporting any environmentalist organizations as I feel they have way to much power and are an underlying problem, They cant get it through their thick skulls that the environment must evolve along with the people. They are stuck tying to save everything from the past and bring back species that are to far gone to save, They care more about bugs and frogs than people.

Rich

Rich, Two days ago I watched a PBS show about a dinosaur dig in Alaska. The area is currently barren tundra. The fossils excavated suggested that the habitat was comparable to Kansas when the dinosaurs roamed the space. Habitats evolve and humans are not going to stop these changes from occurring. These people that want everything to stay the same or be reclaimed to their former state need to realize that may not be achievable.

I want things to be as natural as the next person. I live on 19 acres and keep it as natural as possible so the quail and coyotes can live in peace. That said, If a hawk swoops down and takes out a squirrel I am not going to make sure he is replaced.

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:31 pm

I completely agree with you and would do the same. I do not litter and appreciate nature quite a bit, I just have stopped supporting signing anything for environmental organizations. I feel they to often shoot themselves in the foot and to often are doing more harm than good. I agree that nature will evolve on its own and that we should take care of the planet. Unless we implement some population control we have to be willing to proceed with projects to accommodate the added population and I think most environmentalists dont see it that way,

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:48 pm

I was going to leave this topic alone and just make my comments down in the Political Forum – but talking politics to me is trying to keeping candy from a kid or an angler from fishing.

First I believe in the stewardship of our planet and each of us as a responsibility to take care of what we have.

I want to point out that the main theme of the environment movement is to reduce or even eliminate human interference with earth. “They see man as the ultimate polluter of the earth” and Nature has become their god.” Their claim to the problem with the environment worldwide is our way of life: capitalism, consumption, industry and technology. For years they have predicted catastrophic consequences as in “global cooling” (In the 60’s and 70”s of the coming of the ice age), the “Population Bomb”, the shortage of water, Nuclear Power is hazardous, and now it is Global Warning. Plus, they are now changing Global Warning to “Climate Change”.

And there is a large portion of our populous that believes the above, even some of you - and how did that happen – the Left has been fairly successful replacing comment sense with their “own philosophy of secular humanism and its central tenets of scientific materialism”. “This makeover has been achieved in large part by the mass dissemination and continuation of the lefts distortions, half truths, and overt lies.” “This came about by the left’s leverage and influence in television, print, and broadcast media, movies, classrooms, and courts to advance their big-government environment movement.”

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:35 am

Marty,
I am not an eviromentalist, but you listed some things that they have been predicting, based on what their science told them, and they seem to have gotten it right.

" For years they have predicted catastrophic consequences as in “global cooling” (In the 60’s and 70”s of the coming of the ice age), the “Population Bomb”, the shortage of water, Nuclear Power is hazardous, and now it is Global Warning. Plus, they are now changing Global Warning to “Climate Change”.

While their solutions may not be what I think will work, their assessments of what the threats are have been right on.

sy · Post by sy » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:00 am

now is a good time for them to start filling their canteens for future use.

ken L. · Post by **ken L.** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:11 am

Logical, common sense and government DO NOT belong in the same sentence.

Takedown · Post by **Takedown** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:43 am

You can try to make the best choices for the economy. But someone will always try to stop you.

President Obama, even if he wanted to get more stimulas money to build Dams, Roads, Bridges and High Speed Rail.

The republican`s would either water it down or just say no. How can anyone blame him for the way these country turned out.

Bush had it for 8 years and the only thing he started was 2 wars and tax cuts for the rich.
And no money to pay for it.

Where would Obama get the money?
He would would have to cut something that come out of the budget.
Maybe when these "Wars" end? money could be spent on infrastructure?

We sure needs some more jobs and I do not care where the money comes from.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:44 am

Well, he got a $trillion to do just that but his friends in congress just gave the money to the states and unions to prop them up for another year or two. No bridges, no jobs. Why should a responsible congressman vote to spend even more for the same? The euro is close to collapse and the Chinese are showing interest in propping up that currency. They helped us to spend into a huge black hole as well. If you want to ever come back and get jobs better hope someone with more brains than ideology steps up and cuts off the lunatic pensions and entitlement programs and gets government under control.

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:58 am

I dont know about all the government pensions so I wont pretend too. I know about my state fire pension and I am not sure after 30 years I could survive on it. My department has not had a COLA raise since I started 14 years ago. Although I got in when it was 3% of your salary for every year you worked up to 30 years we dont have binding arbitration and have lost pay. They are coming for some of our retirement now and if you live in So Cal that could be pretty ugly but you might be able to get by in some areas of Nor Cal.

I am not trying to start an argument but I am sure I will. When I hear people talk about pensions sometimes it frustrates me because a decent pension is kind of compensation for being about 52% under paid to a comparable department our size especially when we work 26 more days a year. Its frustrating to hear this stuff when you had to work 4 days a week when your part time and only get paid minimum wage for 8 hrs of the day and they only pay you for another 11 hours of that same day at half of minimum wage. I can remember rolling quarters to get gas to go work and not having much for food after that. I guess I am saying I paid some hard dues to get this job and spent a lot of time and money on my education and when people in the private sector dont understand how PERS works they see us and get jealous because we had the foresight to get a secure job for stability reasons.

We pay in to our pension. As far as you being on the hook for our pensions that is the biggest bunch of B.S. to come along in a long time. We have investors that invest our pension funds so they grow and everyone who works for this department pays plenty in to their own pension. By the way we get no social security either and while you are at work 40 to 60 hours a week I am at work for 72 to 120. Yeah sometimes we get to sleep all night but sometimes were up 3 -5 times after midnight usually going to someone's house because their family is to lazy to drive them to the hospital for something I would be embarrassed to go to the hospital for in the first place.

I am not trying to bash anyone, this is the life and career that I have chose for myself and I would not change a thing. So if you want to tell me about your time at work I am willing to listen how you came to where you are today. I had a dozen or more different jobs in the trades before I got this job. I chose this job because it was secure first and rewarding and sometimes exciting second. This was a choice I made after I saw a lack of security in the private sector. I pay 34% tax on any O.T I get and dont cheat on my taxes. I would be willing to bet that plenty of persons that run their own business have plenty of non reported income that they dont pay a dime on.

Rich

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Rich,
It's not the regular people who are the problem.
Look at what came out today, that Merill Lynch created bad investments, and then sold them to themselves, and bribed the people in the company to go along.
I doubt any of those people, some of whom made millions in bonuses from illegal activity, will ever be prosecuted, or pay their fair share of anything.
The rich get rich, and the poor get poorer.
The bankers saw a chance for one last hit, and they took it, milking the housing industry for every last dollar, and then turning around and forcing the govt. (us) to bail them out.
Every once in a while, one of them is at least honest about it. Like Leona Helmsley, who said, "Taxes are for poor people".
Don't let anyone sell the line of BS that this mess is our own fault.
Most of us play by the rules, but rich people buy the politicians, make the rules, and use them to take advantage of the rest of us, and our system. They pay more to avoid taxes every year than most of us make.
All most of us want is honest work, jobs that pay decent, and a chance.
But, since our industry and manufacturing has been exported, and along with it the good paying jobs that gave us a tax base for stuff like schools, we have nothing to base our economy on except service. So, eventually, it will be rich people and servants, just like it is in most of the rest of the world.
Real economists are saying that now, if you listen.
It's not good blaming other working people.
I doubt that there is much any of us can do to affect the way things are going, or to actually change things.
Except vote, and demand that our govt. represent us.
And not be silent and accepting when our govt. and big money try to sweep their wrongdoing under the rug.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:45 pm

All I know is that state pension funds are three trillion dollars short of funds. Many of them lost half of their value because those people in charge of investing decided to roll the dice on the real estate boom. I really don't think it is the regular police or fire people but the upper levels that scam the system. If the government cannot afford to bail out the $3 trillion then there will be plenty of angry workers. As for pay the private sector has been so screwed that now government employees make on average twice what the private sector workers are earning. Figure it out. Lower salaries for producers who pay into the tax system means less to pay for government. Not going to work.

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:39 pm

To me the biggest problem we have is that the Federal Reserve is not Federal or a Reserve. In fact it is a private bank. One of our forefathers warned us and I quote " If the private sector ever gains control of the United States money supply your children will some day awake on the foreign shores of the lands that your fathers once conquered". Per the constitution congress was supposed to have the only power to authorize the printing of money. Now the Federal reserve a private bank prints money and loans it to our government at interest which is what causes inflation due to to much money in circulation. The Federal Reserve was created somewhat in secret and went through congress on a christmas eve when most of our legislators had gone on vacation, they had just enough for a quorum.

Rockefeller started rumors to get the great depression going as he knew it would open the door to push the idea of the Federal Reserve that we now have. Your right it is more or less the haves and the have nots. The housing crisis was a win win for the banking industry as the foreclosures they had insured were still sound investments for the banks whom the majority of them are partial owners of the Federal Reserve. In essence they new what they were doing all along. They use the formula of problem, reaction and solution.

The problem was the housing bubble burst that was self generated by the banks. The reaction that they new would be generated was the need for there banks to be propped up. The solution was to have the Federal Reserve print some money for those banks. Their main bank the Federal Reserve got to print more money and loan it to our government with interest. Our government gives it back to the other banks and you and I get to suffer the inflation for that as well as an increase national debt.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the problem, reaction and solution formula goes. They learned most of this from Hitler who had the Reichstag burned and dressed a Pollock up in a german military uniform and said he did it and that they were under attack from Poland. I have the utmost respect for our military there is nothing in my opinion that is more respectable than someone who is willing to risk their life for the freedoms of others. What pisses me off the most is that the problem, reaction and solution gets used to send us to war and our military gets treated like cannon fodder.

Rich

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:08 pm

No problems anymore guys. Sunny and 72 today. We can shut this one down. Washed my driveway today and changed the water in the pool.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:38 am

Ringer wrote:All I know is that state pension funds are three trillion dollars short of funds. Many of them lost half of their value because those people in charge of investing decided to roll the dice on the real estate boom. I really don't think it is the regular police or fire people but the upper levels that scam the system. If the government cannot afford to bail out the $3 trillion then there will be plenty of angry workers. As for pay the private sector has been so screwed that now government employees make on average twice what the private sector workers are earning. Figure it out. Lower salaries for producers who pay into the tax system means less to pay for government. Not going to work.

Ringer,

I don't know how you figure govt. employees aren't producers or don't pay into the tax system?

A.G.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:47 am

Andy-I am not knocking anyone that works for the government but if you think about it the work they do and pay taxes on does nothing to add to the GDP. If the total expense is from taxpayer dollars then it is a net drain on the economy. We need government services but there is definitely a limit on how much we can afford. When IRS revenues are off over 30% and states are even worse then the only way to ever crawl out of the hole is to cut the spending side of the budget or to create a huge growth in the private sector to create more taxpayers. Fact is that 100% of government is paid for by the private sector workers and taxes paid by government employees only reduces the net effect.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:33 am

Ringer,

I dissagree with you.

I know that my position directly contributes to the private sector's ability to produce and thus pay taxes.

The services my small district provides benefits the state, and privately owned business and thier employees.

One example would be a gas field that does about 250,000 U.S. dollars worth of production a day.

I am certain that provides a few tax dollars.

There are more examples, but touting them one by one would sound like some self affirmation or bragging on my part.

And no, I don't get paid that much.

There is this talk about our State (Ca.) being fat with state employees and that is why we are in trouble with money.

The Sacramento Bee looked into this, when Meg promised to cut State worker positions.

California has 11.1 state workers per 1000 people 4th lowest in the nation.

In fairness they also combined county workers with state, (as some states provide more services while Ca. divvies some response to counties) combined Ca has 49.7 workers in the public sector per 1000 7th lowest in the nation.

Also the cost for services/employees was low per taxpayer due to the high population.

(I am not employed by the state.)

.02

Regards,

A.G.

(The article was in the Sac Bee Oct.25 2010 Dan Walter, I don't know how to cut and paste that well.)

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:50 am

Good point and I am sure there are thousands of examples where the government helps business to create products but that does not mean there is not a cost to taxpayers. The California example is somewhat misleading because the state has a huge deficit and is literally bankrupt. It is all about the relative cost for the employees such as wages, pensions, health etc. If your example had merit the state would be in the top ten on recovery from the recession. Could also be that you are overwhelmed by people that take and don't pay anything into the system. Hard to tell.

Takedown · Post by **Takedown** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:41 pm

If I remember right the last Republican Govenor (Arnie) that came into office.
He doubled almost everyones salaries on his staff.

Then wanted to cut the salaries ( wages ) of all the states prison guards.
Anyone want to know about all the Shiii?? they have to deal with eveyday?

He did not seem to be worried about giving his staff all be raising.

I believe the state workers have all earned what they have got. It is not their fault the economy took a crap.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:08 pm

I am going to try to be concise here.

There has been much scapegoating over our current fiscal mess pointed at having "too many" State or local govt. employees, and that is the reason we are in this mess.

While it may be popular to say so, the numbers or facts show otherwise.

The other related issue of benefits to those employees has been twisted a bit as well.

What I have noticed over the years.

When times are booming people say, "You aught to get a real job, and make some REAL money like we are..."

When things slow down, "Look at that guy, state paycheck garunteed...state truck, big pension. I hate that guy..."

It cycles between good times and bad.

Not a state but local employee, and get a huge ration of animosity that we don't really deserve just like your local firefighter or Law enforcement guy trying to get by just like you.

P.S. I don't work for the city of Bell!

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:36 pm

we just lost a good chunk of our pension. Imagine being retired and knowing what you get each month, then the next months check comes hundreds short. Pretty tough if you are just getting by.

Rich

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:20 pm

offduty wrote:To me the biggest problem we have is that the Federal Reserve is not Federal or a Reserve. In fact it is a private bank.

Rockefeller started the great depression......

The Federal Reserve got to print more money and loan it to our government with interest. Our government gives it back to the other banks and you and I get to suffer the inflation for that as well as an increase national debt.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the problem..........
Rich

Here, Here, someone on this website with some REAL insight to what is happening around us!!!!!!!!
Ya'll would be sick, to know the truths, behind the Federal Reserve!

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