Flouro Recommendations

JeffJ · Post by **JeffJ** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:58 pm

I am looking into a new flouro since Seaguar is discontinuing the Carbon Pro line. I have tried the Invisix but either I got a bad spool or it just breaks way too easy. I was snapping off on 8lb test on the hook sets. never had that issue with Carbon pro!What are your thoughts on the Viscous Flouro brand?

split172 · Post by **split172** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:13 pm

I swear by Invisix. I have found when using flouro, make sure there is no line twist when doing your knots. When it gets twisted, it seems to break extremely easy. Maybe change up the knot your using.

Definately Invisix!

duff75 · Post by **duff75** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:08 pm

invizx is good but I would get Tatsu! sweet line great knots for floro!

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:24 pm

Sunline Shooter Metan. I have tried most and it is my favorite, very strong stuff.
Rich

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:42 pm

Trilene 100% fluoro is very strong. I have been very happy with it. It is a quality product that is made in USA. Most fluoro is made over seas.

ash · Post by **ash** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:55 am

Maxima flurocarbon has been great for me, I have been using it for two years now and have had no issues with it. I still think that Sugoi was the best fluro i have used but just too rich for my blood.

Dan P · Post by **Dan P** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:06 am

Glenn wrote:Trilene 100% fluoro is very strong. I have been very happy with it. It is a quality product that is made in USA. Most fluoro is made over seas.

X2 I've been using this since September and its great.

201Pro · Post by **201Pro** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:10 am

JeffJ wrote:I am looking into a new flouro since Seaguar is discontinuing the Carbon Pro line. I have tried the Invisix but either I got a bad spool or it just breaks way too easy. I was snapping off on 8lb test on the hook sets. never had that issue with Carbon pro!What are your thoughts on the Viscous Flouro brand?

Jeff,

I've been using the 100% from Bekely for light line (6 & 8#) applications on a spinning rod. It handles better than carbon pro; which I used before. Has a bit more stretch; which is a good thing for many applications.

For heavier lines, I'm using Vicous (17#) and more recently, I'm playing with 15# Stren Fluorocast ($10/200yds spool retail, currently on sale for $8/spool at BPS). I used the Stren for the first time this past weekend and really like it. Handles much better than the Vicous, but again with a bit more line stretch. Caught a few fish with it too; which is always a good thing. No issues so far for two trips. Plus ... it's the same or less costly than some mono!!

ASD · Post by **ASD** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:16 am

Dan P wrote:
Glenn wrote:Trilene 100% fluoro is very strong. I have been very happy with it. It is a quality product that is made in USA. Most fluoro is made over seas.
X2 I've been using this since September and its great.

x3 love this stuff. I use 8# 17# an 20#

TonyM · Post by **TonyM** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:24 am

I like Inviz-X. Been fishing it in strengths from 6-20# with no problems. I like the way it handles much better than the Carbon Pro I used to use. Plus, my Carbon Pro used to turn a chalky color over time. That doesn't happen with Inviz-X. Regardless of what you choose, check out TackeTour's two fluorocarbon reviews. They compare many of the lines in strength, knot strength, stretch, etc.

BassManDan · Post by **BassManDan** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:43 am

I'll toss P-Line Halo into the mix.
Green Fluoro, good abrasion resistance, perhaps a little stiff for some people, but if you are using the higher pound tests (I use 15 and 20), a limp line isn't to necessary.

Steve Perkins · Post by **Steve Perkins** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:10 am

Jeff, I have been using the McCoy Floro100 and I love it over the InvizX. Before I switched to McCoy all I was using the InvizX.

Limit Out Tackle in Clearlake Oaks has the full line of McCoy lines and Clear Lake Bait and tackle has the McCoy lines also.

Give it a try, I think you will like it.

Steve

.

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:26 am

If I had to use ANY fluro other than Seguar I would go back to mono. I have tried them all and in my opinion nothing else can be compared to Seaguar. I have found Fluro has to be replaced often, about ever fourth trip. It will start breakin to easy as it is used more. I think it has to do with the sudden shocks when you break off, transmitting small fractures up the line several feet. I now use crystal spyder wire with a 10 to 40 ft leader of the appropriate size and tie on a new leader every time out, ended that problem and has dramatically reduced my line cost. Pratice tying a allbright knot untill you get it down perfect every time, if it does not seem right Do it again. I have not yet had that knot fail.

toddmc · Post by **toddmc** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:28 am

The only way to find the one you like best is to try them all! I like Trilene 100% and I use it for both spinning and baitcasting. I think it has the right balance of all characteristics. BPS is thinner diameter and does great on spinning. Many of the Japanese lines are very hard (and expensive), which you may like for flipping.

Rattletrapp · Post by **Rattletrapp** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:35 am

Seaguar Invisix #1. I use a palomar knot and have no problems!

JeffJ · Post by **JeffJ** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:01 pm

Thanks guys, I have went thru the trails before searching for a good flouro till I found the Carbon pro line which i really liked. I have used many of the Japanese brands which are costly and hard to get in quantity. I thought Invisix would be good but after breaking off several times in tournaments I have lost faith in it. it wasnt a knot break but some where else in the line. I was told by a buddy Gamma edge and Touch would be a good choice to try. So guess its experiment time again. Lucky I still have several 1000yr spools stocked up till I find something i like.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 pm

Keep in mind that FC line can stertch about the same as mono. The big difference is FC line stays stretched at a reduced diameter and that weakens the line. If you don't over load FC line, then it's OK because it hasn't reached it's yield strength.
The other factor to consider with FC (or mono) line the diameter verses the pound test; no standards and brands differ greatly, which has a major impact on how the line performs.
I haven't found a good all around FC line that performs better than a premium mono and tried them all. FC line has less drag going through the water, sinks giving you better feel of your underwtaer lures. Breaking big fish off during the fight from line failure just isn't acceptable; rarely happens with mono and too often with FC. With FC (any brand) you take your pick and pray the line doesn't fail.
Tom

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:59 pm

201Pro wrote:
JeffJ wrote:I am looking into a new flouro since Seaguar is discontinuing the Carbon Pro line. I have tried the Invisix but either I got a bad spool or it just breaks way too easy. I was snapping off on 8lb test on the hook sets. never had that issue with Carbon pro!What are your thoughts on the Viscous Flouro brand?
Jeff,

I've been using the 100% from Bekely for light line (6 & 8#) applications on a spinning rod. It handles better than carbon pro; which I used before. Has a bit more stretch; which is a good thing for many applications.

For heavier lines, I'm using Vicous (17#) and more recently, I'm playing with 15# Stren Fluorocast ($10/200yds spool retail, currently on sale for $8/spool at BPS). I used the Stren for the first time this past weekend and really like it. Handles much better than the Vicous, but again with a bit more line stretch. Caught a few fish with it too; which is always a good thing. No issues so far for two trips. Plus ... it's the same or less costly than some mono!!

Curious as to why you will use Trilene Floro for small line and not for the heavy 17lb plus line weights. I use it 100% in all weight lines in green.

Sinjin Kim · Post by **Sinjin Kim** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:18 pm

Seaguar Inviz-X has never failed me. I've used 6-20# tests and have always used the San Diego Jam knot.

The line's diameter is super fine, limp, casts extremely well and low in memory. I've used Trilene 100% FC and although the line is strong, the line is SUPER THICK!

I've been recently using Seaguar Abraz-X and I like it more than Inviz-X! The line has a better coating, the same diameter as Inviz-X and casts a bit better. Also, the line is extremely strong. I've been roping jig fish on a Dobyns 705 with 12-15#. If you know me, you know how hard I set the hook and not once did the line fail.

My advice is to NOT use a Palomar knot with FC lines and use the San Diego Jam knot.

Steve Perkins · Post by **Steve Perkins** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:36 pm

Sinjin Kim wrote:My advice is to NOT use a Palomar knot with FC lines and use the San Diego Jam knot.

True, dont use the Palomar with Floro.

I use the Double Trilene Knot and it has always worked great for me. I do use the Palomar on my dropshot rig.

.

201Pro · Post by **201Pro** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:24 pm

Phil wrote:Curious as to why you will use Trilene Floro for small line and not for the heavy 17lb plus line weights. I use it 100% in all weight lines in green.

Phil,

I have found that quality of the line is much bigger factor in smaller line weights. That said, the quality comes at a price!! Whereas for the heavier weight lines, much of the issues are not the same ... so I tend to stay on the cheaper side there.

Folks have complained about lines such as Triple Fish, Vicious, and others for one reason or the other. I have had no issues with those lines for 15#'s and above. There is one post above that say that FC needs to be replace frequently ... maybe so, I do cut off a few feet (about the length of the rod) on every trip ... so after a while, I'll need to re-spool ... bigger lines cost more for the same spool or have less line per spool for the same cost. So ... I'm using lesser expensive lines. Same goes for the smaller line weights. But I'll have 200 yrds per spool (well, it seems that way) on my spinning reel ... so I don't need to re-spool as often. Therefore I can use a little more expensive line!

Twisted ... I know!

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:58 pm

201Pro has it right!

Lighter lines vs heavy lines....

If you not using 100% Berkley or Sunline or equivalent for your lighter line applications, your better off saving your money and using Maxima Mono....

For heavy line save your money and Vicious is perfectly fine.....

ChaChaChicken · Post by **ChaChaChicken** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:15 am

I also think I got a bad spool of Invisx. I bought bulk spool of 15 lb, and it breaks like 10 lb. I actually one time tied on a new jig, went to cast it, and line broke!! I was thinking about sending it back to Seagar to see if they would replace it. Has anyone tried sending line back before?? A bulk spool of 15 lb is not cheap.

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:37 am

Sunline for 4-7lb test.

8-12 seaguar

14-25 Trilene 100%

sro114 · Post by **sro114** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:14 am

I use the Seagur AbrazX for everything that i use FC for. I also tried the InvisX and had some weird break offs. The AbrazX has worked flawlessly for me and I use it from 6lb to 20lb.

Also if you search the internet there are still quite a few outfits with bulk spools of the Carbon Pro.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:28 am

I use BPS fluoro, both 6lb and 8lb, and use a palomar knot, and don't break off unless I haven't retied all day.
A lot has to do with how heavy a hook you're using, and how stiff a rod you're using.
And you have to pay attention to your line condition when you're dragging through rocks all day.

pigdestroyer · Post by **pigdestroyer** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:08 am

ASD wrote:
Dan P wrote:
Glenn wrote:Trilene 100% fluoro is very strong. I have been very happy with it. It is a quality product that is made in USA. Most fluoro is made over seas.
X2 I've been using this since September and its great.
x3 love this stuff. I use 8# 17# an 20#

x4 Price is good. Strong, limp and sensitive.

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:34 am

I have used the Seaguar Abraz X and Invisix and both have had issues with breaks..but nothing to a great extent. if I choose any FC i choose the Sugoi, even though its expensive. The new Tatsu Seaguar makes Sugoi look cheap though.

Also, I've been fishing the BPS FC and its been super strong! Another great choice for sure.

Eric

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:54 pm

Here is a review on the tatsu http://www.tacklereports.com/wp/2010/06 ... urocarbon/

I like abrazx and tatsu.

All flouro comes from Japan or Germany... not the USA. Also the trilene is huge in diameter compared to the other stuff. I would go with BPS before 100%

mrfishin86 · Post by **mrfishin86** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:06 pm

ChaChaChicken wrote:I also think I got a bad spool of Invisx. I bought bulk spool of 15 lb, and it breaks like 10 lb. I actually one time tied on a new jig, went to cast it, and line broke!! I was thinking about sending it back to Seagar to see if they would replace it. Has anyone tried sending line back before?? A bulk spool of 15 lb is not cheap.

I think there may be some issues with the 15lb Invisx. I have fished all the Invisx line from 6-25 and the 15 consistently breaks on hooksets. I have not had issues with any of the other line sizes but the 15 has definitely cost me some good fish.

Also in response to the original topic of this thread. If you are looking for a good 8lb I highly recommend the Sunline Guide Special, and if you are looking for larger line sizes the Sunline Shooter Metan Invisible, as mentioned in another post is some really good stuff.

R.Cook · Post by **R.Cook** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:09 am

I have used all different brands of fluorocarbon, and have settled on the regular P-Line Fluoro. I used Invisx for a long time, but I seem to break off a lot less with the P-Line. Plus it's a pretty good deal, not priced real high and the normal spools are 250 yards instead of the standard 200 yards with most other lines. Kenny Shepherd is carrying it at Inside Lines on 16th Street in Merced, as well as alot of other quality products....just in case anyone is in the area.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:06 am

Kinda hard to ignore the NUMBER 1 fluoro used by the Touring Pros! Trilene 100% Fluoro, just take a look at the touring pro results in yer Bassmaster, FLW & BassWest Magazines.

As much as I love Yamamoto's Sugoi, with 35 rods currently spooled with various line tests of Fluoro, it's not possible for me to spool every one with Sugoi. I have equal confidence in using Trilene's 14-25# test flouros and it's the first I recommend or spool my clients up with while on the water! Pure Fishing's Stren Fluoro comes out of the same factory and it too is every bit as good as the Trilene, ya just don't hear about it near as much!

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:06 am

Cooch wrote:Kinda hard to ignore the NUMBER 1 fluoro used by the Touring Pros! Trilene 100% Fluoro, just take a look at the touring pro results in yer Bassmaster, FLW & BassWest Magazines.

As much as I love Yamamoto's Sugoi, with 35 rods currently spooled with various line tests of Fluoro, it's not possible for me to spool every one with Sugoi. I have equal confidence in using Trilene's 14-25# test flouros and it's the first I recommend or spool my clients up with while on the water! Pure Fishing's Stren Fluoro comes out of the same factory and it too is every bit as good as the Trilene, ya just don't hear about it near as much!

You dont think that has to do with the Pure Fishing Sponsorship deal? you know the one where you are paid on where you place?

Its like BASS and Toyota. Till BASS or FLW takes the rod, line, baits, reel, etc back to the "garage" to do a tech check on it. I am not buying based on what a pro SAYS he uses.
The next line company that offers him a deal... he will be saying how great that line is.

If you are having breakoffs with a Palomar knot. Learn how to tie it. I have had my rods breaks before the knot using a correctly tied palomar. Oh and ALL knots tie back on each other. Its about how much friction you put on it when you YANK it closed without wetting the line.
Didn't they teach you to wet the line and pull slow in boy scouts?

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:39 am

I have had excellent results with the Toray Upgrade and Finesse lines.

Flourocarbon materials were invented in the USA by Dupont. Toray purchased a facility from Dupont that produced flourocarbon fibers.

j10b wrote:
All flouro comes from Japan or Germany... not the USA. Also the trilene is huge in diameter compared to the other stuff. I would go with BPS before 100%

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:52 am

You do know there is a HUGE difference in flourocarbon and flourocarbon fishing line?

http://www.seaguar.com/seaguar-communit ... d-a.htm#06

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:05 am

drew wrote:Flourocarbon materials were invented in the USA by Dupont. Toray purchased a facility from Dupont that produced flourocarbon fibers.

DuPont marketed fluorocarbons for use as a refrigerant (among other uses) starting in the 1920s.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:38 am

Anything but Vanish.

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:49 am

Dupont invented organofluorine's and many of the common fluoropolymers including PVDF. Polyvinylidene Fluoride is the actual material used in fishing lines. I believe that Toray and Shakespeare (Pure Fishing) manufacture their own resins.

http://www.textileworld.com/Articles/20 ... rbons.html

j10b wrote:You do know there is a HUGE difference in flourocarbon and flourocarbon fishing line?

http://www.seaguar.com/seaguar-communit ... d-a.htm#06

Topwater All Day · Post by **Topwater All Day** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 am

So I'll throw another line in the mix - Yo-Zuri H2O 100% Flourocarbon:

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Yo-Zuri_ ... -YZHF.html

I have been using this line in the 10-15lb sizes for going on two years now. It has performed flawlessly and I am very happy with it. Strong, sensitive and fairly abrasion resistant.

I have only used it with casting set ups as I stick with the Yo-Zuri Hybrid on my spinning outfits. It's what works for me - and I am only sponsored by my wallet!!!

Rob

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:11 am

drew wrote:Dupont invented organofluorine's and many of the common fluoropolymers including PVDF. Polyvinylidene Fluoride is the actual material used in fishing lines. I believe that Toray and Shakespeare (Pure Fishing) manufacture their own resins.

http://www.textileworld.com/Articles/20 ... rbons.html

j10b wrote:You do know there is a HUGE difference in flourocarbon and flourocarbon fishing line?

http://www.seaguar.com/seaguar-communit ... d-a.htm#06

So you didnt read where Seaguar invented it in 1971?? Ok

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:10 pm

I saw their claim. Maybe Seaguar was the first to manufacture and market a PVDF line specifically for fishing. Maybe that would give them the right to make the claim that they invented the first FC fishing line. They did not invent the material.

j10b wrote:
drew wrote:Dupont invented organofluorine's and many of the common fluoropolymers including PVDF. Polyvinylidene Fluoride is the actual material used in fishing lines. I believe that Toray and Shakespeare (Pure Fishing) manufacture their own resins.

http://www.textileworld.com/Articles/20 ... rbons.html

j10b wrote:You do know there is a HUGE difference in flourocarbon and flourocarbon fishing line?

http://www.seaguar.com/seaguar-communit ... d-a.htm#06
So you didnt read where Seaguar invented it in 1971?? Ok

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:07 pm

Drew i didnt think we were talking about anything BUT line. I am sure zebco or whomever didnt invent graphite. But someone put graphite and other stuff to make a fishing rod. That doesnt mean Mr Graphite should be in the conversation about inventing fishing rods

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:23 pm

My original point was that the raw material was developed here in the USA. Germany and Japan are not the only countries producing PVDF resins for fishing line.

j10b wrote:Drew i didnt think we were talking about anything BUT line. I am sure zebco or whomever didnt invent graphite. But someone put graphite and other stuff to make a fishing rod. That doesnt mean Mr Graphite should be in the conversation about inventing fishing rods

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:03 am

j10b wrote:You dont think that has to do with the Pure Fishing Sponsorship deal? you know the one where you are paid on where you place?

Absolutely not! Besides, I count 8 replies here on this thread, where guys are recommending Trilene 100% Fluoro, and not a single one of us is a paid staff member of Berkely or Pure Fishing.

As for the Pros, the line used is the single most important link between them and the fish. They are gonna use what they feel is the absolute best. You can attach yer line to any rod, reel, hook or lure and make em work. Certainly in these other areas, your point can be valid in some instances, but I don't believe it when it comes to the line they use, they have too much at stake!

j10b wrote:All flouro comes from Japan or Germany... not the USA

This is an absolute FALSE statement! All of the Pure Fishing brands of fluorocarbon are extruded, made, in Spirit Lake, IA with raw fluorocarbon material made in the US. The Federal Trade Commission, I believe, requires that all products sold in the US be labeled with the country from which they are made, the Berkely & Stren Fluorocarbon brands are labeled â€œMade in USAâ€

Garrettt · Post by **Garrettt** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:08 am

7# and under FC sniper
8#-12# Tatsu
15# I just love Pline halo
20#+ trilene 100%

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:45 am

Cooch wrote:
j10b wrote:You dont think that has to do with the Pure Fishing Sponsorship deal? you know the one where you are paid on where you place?
Absolutely not! Besides, I count 8 replies here on this thread, where guys are recommending Trilene 100% Fluoro, and not a single one of us is a paid staff member of Berkely or Pure Fishing.

As for the Pros, the line used is the single most important link between them and the fish. They are gonna use what they feel is the absolute best. You can attach yer line to any rod, reel, hook or lure and make em work. Certainly in these other areas, your point can be valid in some instances, but I don't believe it when it comes to the line they use, they have too much at stake!

j10b wrote:All flouro comes from Japan or Germany... not the USA

This is an absolute FALSE statement! All of the Pure Fishing brands of fluorocarbon are extruded, made, in Spirit Lake, IA with raw fluorocarbon material made in the US. The Federal Trade Commission, I believe, requires that all products sold in the US be labeled with the country from which they are made, the Berkely & Stren Fluorocarbon brands are labeled â€œMade in USAâ€

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:36 am

No, I don't need to play word games, seems that was your choice of topics and direction here not mine. There was no point that I stated Trilene 100% was the best either, that was your twist. I think it's purty clear to everyone here but you, exactly what I stated, it's the number 1 used Fluoro by touring pros.

And yes, I have used just about every Fluoro out there and have been using fluoro lines ever since I first used it at the 1998 Shasta Bassmaster Open. Some I've paid for, most I've been given samples of to try. So ta answer yer question fully, I've used enough brands of Fluoro to make a fair opinion as to what I'd personally recommend and use myself.

It's just an opinion, git over yerself.

Sinjin Kim · Post by **Sinjin Kim** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:16 am

Cooch has more fishing experience than most of us on the board. I've used many of his suggestions and it has helped me perform better on the water and it gives that extra boost of confidence which always helps.

with the exception of ONE!

Round Abu Garcia 6500 reels are NOT the best reels ever made. lmao

Someone would have to force me to use one of those reels. They were great when I was a kid, but boy oh boy are there a lot of nice reels on the market today.

Getting back to topic. I've heard a lot of good things about Trilene 100% FC and bought a spool of 6# and 10# tests. The line is very strong but on the thick side compared to Seaguar Inviz-X and Abraz-X (You can see the diameter comparison on TW).

If I were to fish heavily covered areas like the Delta, I would definitely fish Trilene 100% but for my local clear water reservoirs that often requires light lines, I will stick to Seaguar FC lines.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:57 pm

Things seem to be getting a testy.
One reason fluorocarbon products are not manufactured in the US is the Montreal Protocol. DuPont sold the Stren plant to Vicious Fishing.
The question if FC line is good or bad, depends on several factors that have been discussed; poor knots being the number 1 issue. If you change your line regularly and tie good quality knots, brand becomes a personal choice.
I brought up the line diameter issue and that doesn't seem to bother anyone. If I was marketing FC line and know one cares about what the diameter is, why not label 14 lb as 10 lb or 25 lb as 20 lb, my line would be stronger. That is exactly what Trilene and others have done!
The problem where I fish is the bass don't strike my lures as often with larger diameter line, so my choice is to use 10 lb line that has 10 lb diameter, not 10 lb FC line with 16 lb diameter.
My argument is simple; the FC line fails between rod tip and the water, not at the knot. This has happen several times with different FC line mfr's. This type of failure never occurs with Mono and rarely with FC /mono hybrids.
Tom