The price of cheating in tourneys...

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:44 pm

15 days in jail, five years on probation & surrender fishing license for five years. Is this a fair punishment?

Follow up on the story from last October.

http://www.lsonews.com/fishing-news/117 ... tournament

http://startelegram.typepad.com/crime_t ... ament.html

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:55 pm

Should be more! The way I look at it if someone stole say 150 dollars from say 80 guys (300 entry fee for 40 boats) it should be more strict. That's just me but I hate cheaters.
Guy Williams

sker13 · Post by **sker13** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:58 pm

Get a rope. Seriously I grew up in Texas. He is F+++ed for life. He will pay for as long as he lives unless he moves far far away.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:08 pm

Rose didn't just steal a few dollars he won a dozen boats and a ton of real money. He is toast in the fishing circles.

blkdog812 · Post by **blkdog812** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:20 pm

wow................almost makes it worth cheating (not) . all that he won and no restitution to anyone............... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:28 pm

Ya I agree that He should lose everything that he used to be able to cheat truck, boat gear ect. I think that the penalty is pretty tough BUT I agree that he will NEVER be able to fish another tourny and if he does they will probably find a boat with no captain.
CHEATERS suck and really tarnish this sport ya know its the saying only one bad egg and that doesnt smell like Rose.
LS

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:45 pm

Speaking of cheaters, is it true that Steve Sapp was caught cheating.

Guyle · Post by **Guyle** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:25 pm

Leon Pugh wrote:Speaking of cheaters, is it true that Steve Sapp was caught cheating.

Why don't you call him and ask him. Cuz if he didn't it's not nice to bring it to a forum.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:31 pm

Leon Pugh wrote:Speaking of cheaters, is it true that Steve Sapp was caught cheating.

Leon - do you think Napa would appreciate you slandering someone with their name in your sig?

Mike Silva · Post by **Mike Silva** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:36 pm

No Napa Batteries for me now

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:44 pm

Gator wrote:
Leon Pugh wrote:Speaking of cheaters, is it true that Steve Sapp was caught cheating.
Leon - do you think Napa would appreciate you slandering someone with their name in your sig?

He asked a question, didnt make a statement...........

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:24 pm

I did not insinuate in any way that he was a cheater, I only asked if the rummer I have been hearing are true. If I slander some one there will be no doubt. I take great offense that you could interpret my question in that way. Maybe you should read it again. It is not so tough to clarifies the matter. I only met Steve a few times and I have a hard time believing it.

GGR · Post by **GGR** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:08 pm

Leon,

Maybe you should have asked Steve yourself on one of those few times you mentioned meeting him, I'm sure he would answered your question. Would you not want this courtesy yourself? or would you rather someone go on a public forum and post the question?...like you did.

If you have a hard time believing the "rumors" yourself why even bring it up at all?

Steve Sapp has been a very good friend of mine for 20+ years. Absolute B.S. that these rumors even exist! Those that know Steve know that he has his hands pretty full these days, he doesn't need B.S. like this being stirred up, pretty lame.

-Greg Ross

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:29 pm

Greg I did not stir it up, I have not seen Steve in years, quite some time back I asked What happened to him and I got a story that I will not repeat. I simply wanted to know fact or fiction. I think I have a right to ask the question, If the anglers here tell me it is not so then I will tell others that repeat it, that it is not true. I did not mean to offend any one, but to chastise me for asking a simple question is not right. I felt I could get the straight scoop here. If I saw him tomorrow I would ask him face to face. End of subject as far as I am concerned.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:47 am

Leon - Maybe I responded a little bit hastily but the fact of the matter is, asking a question such as that on a public forum is only going to cause harm to someones name, whether or not it is true. It would have been better to send a PM or call someone than to post it in the forums.

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:39 am

Leon Pugh wrote:Greg I did not stir it up, I have not seen Steve in years, quite some time back I asked What happened to him and I got a story that I will not repeat. I simply wanted to know fact or fiction. I think I have a right to ask the question, If the anglers here tell me it is not so then I will tell others that repeat it, that it is not true. I did not mean to offend any one, but to chastise me for asking a simple question is not right. I felt I could get the straight scoop here. If I saw him tomorrow I would ask him face to face. End of subject as far as I am concerned.

Leon, you do not have a right to ask such a question on a public forum if you have no factual information. Just by asking the question some people will assume it is a fact and you have tarnished a name/reputation for no reason. How would you feel if I posted up the same question about you??

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:39 am

Hey all,

Sounds like a lot of dancing around the statement but no answer. Perhaps its easy to hang a guy in Texas from here but no one want to go on record in our own backyard. I have heard the rumors about Sapp for years and have no knowledge either way. Seems like a nice enough guy but it seems like it could be aired either way and be put to bed. You are as guilty as the cheater if you protect and censor data.

Just my 50 cents worth (inflation).

al

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:41 am

Nuke this thread.

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:43 am

As I said. The censorship continues. good answer.

al

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:45 am

If he was caught cheating then the world should know. If he was not caught and people are just speculating then it is wrong to say things like that on a public forum. We all think that cheating just never occurs in our local worlds but you can bet where there is money and people there are cheaters and I mean in every state in the country. The Texas guys used to lick Robby Rose's rear because he was a fishing god. They would have torn you a new one for even suggesting that the preacher could ever cheat. Guess not.

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:12 am

Ringer wrote:The Texas guys used to lick Robby Rose's rear because he was a fishing god. They would have torn you a new one for even suggesting that the preacher could ever cheat. Guess not.

Exactly. Most people don't intend to cheat. This is where good guys, go bad. If the rules and penalties are lax, then cheating becomes increasingly tempting. Remember these guys?

They were once regular good guys who got tempted and made a bad decision to cheat. Sure, guys whispered in the parking lot about these two fishermen. No one had proof until it took someone to hide in the bushes and film the guys in the act.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:23 am

team snag a shad

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:52 am

senkoboy wrote:As I said. The censorship continues. good answer.

al

I may be wrong here, but what guys are saying is its a pretty shitty thing to throw out stuff like that on a forum. It's people's reputations that get tossed about in idle conversation and with no recourse of their own to defend themselves against it.

Here's what I can say based on what I KNOW about your question:

â€¢ Steve Sapp has never been formally accused of doing anything wrong in a tournament.
â€¢ Steve Sapp passed every single lie detector test I've known him to take after winning a tournament by any and all orgs that have done the testing.
â€¢ Steve Sapp is welcome to fish with any organization in the country, on any level he's qualified to compete. He's not on a ban list somewhere and it's never even been a point of consideration.

Sure there are rumors out there. There are rumors out there about a lot of anglers. There are rumors out there about competitors at the highest levels. And for some sad reason, there are rumors out there about anyone that's fortunate enough to win a few tournaments. Rumors are exactly that and here's a definition of the noun:

1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.

For me it's easy, I don't want to be the one associated with perpetuating and further circulating something that can't be substantiated. It would not reflect well on me and is doing someone else an extreme disservice.

sTony

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:08 am

How come everybody is side stepping the question leon ask

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:58 am

Guy Williams

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:08 am

Its all about who you know.

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:10 am

I really regret asking that question now. I have a habit of thinking others think like me, my mistake. But I did get my answer until it is proven beyond all doubt, he did not do it and will continue to have my respect. Many of you are right and I just was not thinking when I made that post. Too many people just jump to conclusions, just like some of you jumped to conclusions about me. I do not do that, as far as I am concerned delete the thread.

GEORGEN · Post by **GEORGEN** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:03 am

SO WHO'S BARREL WAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:05 am

GEORGEN wrote: SO WHO'S BARREL WAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Ha Ha, I saw those pictures too............

JohnMarino · Post by **JohnMarino** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:19 am

Wonder if he would of won without cheating

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:58 am

Brian wrote:
GEORGEN wrote: SO WHO'S BARREL WAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Ha Ha, I saw those pictures too............

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:25 pm

Ernst wrote:
Brian wrote:
GEORGEN wrote: SO WHO'S BARREL WAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Ha Ha, I saw those pictures too............

*cricket* *cricket*

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:06 pm

The problem is what do those photos show you? A photo of a dock with some containers with holes in them and another with a lid on it. It doesn't show you who put it there. It doesn't show you it in use. It doesn't show a guy fishing around it or to it.

It might be proof of something for sure but what I don't know for sure and definitely doesn't by itself serve as proof against a certain person.

If there's additional information beyond the photos I've never heard it.

Now if you showed me a photo of someone dropping fish into that contraption, adding food or whatever you do in such a system, maybe a video of someone catching or taking fish from it; then you'd have proof of something.

But the photos by themselves are worthless. Especially if there are alternate uses for the materials shown in the photo. I'm no McGyver so I wouldn't know what to do with that collection of equipment one way or another.

sTony

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:18 pm

nice idea if your crappie fishing off the dock it would make a nice live well to hold the crappie in till you got ready to to make dinner out of them.

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:35 pm

What I find interesting about this topic is just about everyone of "us" has cheated in a tournament to some extent. Rules are rules from the life jacket on to more than six fish in the livewell to hooking a bed fish from the outside of the mouth. Kinda like that statement someone made long, long ago "he who has not sinned may cast the first stone".

Where does the blattant cheating and your *** should be tarred and feathered begin. . . Lead weights in the gut, caging fish, intentionally snagging, keeping more than the limit in your livewell as not to spook the fish (seen this one many times: pull the male off the bed, keep it and go after the female). My wife and I just recently witnessed this one and we doubted ourselves as to seeing the team cull a fish earlier then later seeing them put the male in the livewell and go after the female. We were on that same bed 20 minutes earlier and couldn't get either to go. Those guys places 2nd or 3rd in the tournament. We were not 100% sure and by the time we found out had their limit the time frame had expired for protesting.Should they be tarred and feathered or to a lesser extent seriously bitch slapped?

Just some thoughts to ponder.....

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 pm

Andy Lippert wrote: *cricket* *cricket*

I remember that tourney ...... and the man in question didn't fish it.

crap now I remember losing big fish $ by less than an ounce that day

Here's a new rumor... I heard Guyle uses live otters fer bait

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:00 pm

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER wrote:
Andy Lippert wrote: *cricket* *cricket*
I remember that tourney ...... and the man in question didn't fish it.

crap now I remember losing big fish $ by less than an ounce that day

Here's a new rumor... I heard Guyle uses live otters fer bait

You are right, he did not fish it........... I think some accused him guilty by association though..........

do tell about guyle......

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:11 pm

Guy are you saying rick sponsors a cheater

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm

hippie wrote:Guy are you saying rick sponsors a cheater

No, but

Guy Williams

620 Dude · Post by **620 Dude** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:54 pm

Hey Leon...this place ain't like that Ol' 56 Merc Tranny....once it gets bent out of shape it's a little harder to straighten out!
Don't lose any sleep over it....see ya on the water

acm95301 · Post by **acm95301** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm

Wow..this is getting contentious.. So in the role of minnow to this shark tank, I have a question.

I'm brand spanking new to tournament fishing. And Have only been exposed to two diffrent orgaizations, and the rules they follow.

Is Cheating anything that the rules forbid or is cheating any attempt to seek unfair advantage?

The co-world record holder did some would say nefarious..if legal stuff... does seeding, or helping DFG do electro fishing, or whatever prefishing thing like planting habitat count as cheating? or does cheating only happen during a tournament?

FYI, I have little or no knowledge of any previous famous cheating...and just wondered where the line is.... I asked one organization a million questions just to figure out the difference between dragging or strolling a jig and trolling was.

KingFisher · Post by **KingFisher** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:03 am

Andrew Jackson wrote:What I find interesting about this topic is just about everyone of "us" has cheated in a tournament to some extent. Rules are rules from the life jacket on to more than six fish in the livewell to hooking a bed fish from the outside of the mouth. Kinda like that statement someone made long, long ago "he who has not sinned may cast the first stone".

Where does the blattant cheating and your *** should be tarred and feathered begin. . . Lead weights in the gut, caging fish, intentionally snagging, keeping more than the limit in your livewell as not to spook the fish (seen this one many times: pull the male off the bed, keep it and go after the female). My wife and I just recently witnessed this one and we doubted ourselves as to seeing the team cull a fish earlier then later seeing them put the male in the livewell and go after the female. We were on that same bed 20 minutes earlier and couldn't get either to go. Those guys places 2nd or 3rd in the tournament. We were not 100% sure and by the time we found out had their limit the time frame had expired for protesting.Should they be tarred and feathered or to a lesser extent seriously bitch slapped?

Just some thoughts to ponder.....

no one in here will ever admit it.....

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:13 am

KingFisher wrote:
no one in here will ever admit it.....

Bones, no one in here has anything that they can admit to.

That's the way the rumor mill works and sometimes forums as well. Kind of like the old west' s lynch party. Doesn't make a difference if you have any real proof, just spread the word, ruin the reputation and hang the guy in effigy.

sTony

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:35 am

If you win (any of you) someone will think you cheated. Only happens if you win

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:53 am

Is it cheating to drill holes in barrels like that and stuff live crawdads in them so bass come over and eat there regularly? Then don't feed them for a few days and go to that spot during a tournament and catch them?

Also what about crappie and bluegill feeders? I see those on a lot of docks throughout the sand mound area.

I would actually like to know if this is cheating

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:44 am

This is what is written in the Won Bass rules.

[quote]Transporting live fish taken in one area and releasing them in another are for the purpose of â€œseedingâ€

Rich reeser · Post by **Rich reeser** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:01 pm

well f**k me i've been fishing tourneys for almost 10 years now and am still seeking a 1st place, now looks as if i ever win one i will be branded for life.....who'd of thunk it