can bass really see fishing line?

[joeymfd]

im pretty new to bass fishing, mostly on the delta. all my reels have braided line on them and the guy i mostly go with recently canged all his rells to floro. he says the fish can see the line while my other buddy says they cant. i know companies make transition and vanish so there must be some truth to it but do you guys really think so.

thanks

[Big Ed]

They not only see it they can sence it with their lateral line.

They use their sight, hearing/sound and sencery perception quite well.

[Bill K]

There are situations when alll fish can see and/or sense line. That is why one fellow with lighter line can be catching fish, when the guy right next to him with the same bait, etc. but with heavy line will be getting nothing. If you use braid, always add a flouro leader(with few exceptions) or use a various degree of line weights in mono or flouro. My take anyway. Bill K

[Cooch]

No doubt, no question in my mind, fish CAN see yer line.

Are you going to get less bites on braid versus using fluoro? Yes you will under many conditions. Personally, I prefer a line that fish can't see and yet detect with their lateral line, versus a line they can definately see and detect with their lateral line. In dirty water, it ain't gonna make any difference at all. The River is typically stained to clear most of the time, and the fish can see far better than we think, especially in stained conditions where we may only have a foot visability from the surface.

It's all about personal preference and the confdidence level ya have in using braid when subsurface fishing! Rest assured though, if'n yer using braid and yer buddy is using fluoro, I garuntee, that at some point, he's gonna spank ya good and make a believer out of ya! You might be able to keep up with him on those days when the bass just clock anything that comes by and they have complete disregard for the presence of any line. But on most days, it's gonna seem like he's out fishing you.

Think about this fer a moment, you go back over this website and search using these three words: Braid Leader Fluoro*. You'll find it in this thread all ready! 90% of the guys who use braided line, will tell you to use a Fluoro carbon leader. Why do you think that is? I rest my case!

Good luck with which ever ya choose!

[TonyL]

Hey Cooch , I'm presently in a transition .That is , I'm changing all of my reels over ta braid , for all of the obvious benefits , but also cause I have a 12yr old son who does ALL of the fishin that I do , that is , multiple techniques and such , so I have ta buy everything twice ! So for now we're somewhat limited and don't have dedicated "topwater" rigs , so I like the idea of being able ta cut that flouro leader/jig off of that med/hvy and tie on a spook ! But ta be honest I'm not sure I'm liking it , aside from the noisy line , and my son saying , "I'll bet that braid is gonna cut into those guides" every time I real in , I'm not sure if the flouro leader is enough , how long of a leader do you suggest ? I'm tryin ta build up the confidence in this set-up and it's not easy as I had 100 % flouro on these rods prior. So how long of a leader would you suggest , and any other suggestions ?

[Bill K]

I am not cooch here, but I would say a average leader length is 6ft or the length of your rod. Most of the rods today have guides that braid will not cut a groove into. In the past the old metal quides with no liners, etc it could happen, but I would not even give that a thought with todays good or better rods. Bill K

[TonyL]

Hey thanks Bill , I'll have my son read your post so he'll SHUT UP !
Ha , Ha !! I'll keep the leader as long as the rod and work on that confidence !!

[Cooch]

So how long of a leader would you suggest , and any other suggestions ?

I'll leave that answer up to the experts. I NEVER use braid, fer any other application than topwater. Hence, I NEVER use a Fluoro leader and am not qualified to effectively give ya a reliable answer.

[Rod Rinta]

I never use braid except for topwater applications and heavy cover. I'm interested in trying the braid/flouro leader application. This begs the question, what knot do you use to attach your flouro leader to the braid? Blood knot?

[mark poulson]

Albright Knot. Thin and strong.

[TonyL]

I've been using a blood knot with no problems thus far. Even with the different diameters.I'm using the fireline crystal , and just can't help but believe that it's just too white for soakin baits , jigs ,worms etc. ,so I heard from guys here about using the flouro leader , now I like this cause before the braid I had 100% flouro and believe in it ! One other issue is the knot and guide.when pitchin if I reel the knot up too high/past the 1st guide sometimes it sort of snags up a little on the guide , I was thinkin of maybe droppin a little crazy glue or something on the knot ta maybe prevent this ,or instead of 5-6'leader , maybe go 10' , hoping the momentum of the pitch might pull that knot thru easier.

[TonyL]

Maybe I'll just look-up,try the albright !

[Bill K]

I like the double uni-knot to join two lines. Cut that tag very short and the uni seems to slide thru quides, etc. with no problem. Bill K

[Mikey]

Another problem with the braid and leader that wasnt mentioned here. Braid doesnt stretch,so your leader takes the brunt of the fight along with the extra knot when you build this rig......remember this when thinking of cranking down your drag on that 12#er cause you have braid......it wont work.

[TonyL]

Uni knot I'm looking it up , found / trie the albright last night seems ta come thru the guide better than the blood . Hey Mikey , yeahh , good input - thanks guys !

[Otay Michael]

So how long of a leader would you suggest , and any other suggestions ?

I'll leave that answer up to the experts. I NEVER use braid, fer any other application than topwater. Hence, I NEVER use a Fluoro leader and am not qualified to effectively give ya a reliable answer.

No, not even when pitchin in extra heavy cover? What pound line?

[Fish Chris]

can bass see your line ? Absolutely. Boes this matter ? Maybe a little... sometimes...

For many years I used braid, tied directly to my lures / hooks. About 6 years ago I started using a mono leader, mainly to see if it would increase my number of bites. It did not. However, I quickly found that it did give me increased abrasion resistence at the business end of my line, both around rocks, and over a basses teeth.
Also, I found that it gave me just a bit of a shock absorber when used in conjuction with my virtually 'zero stretch braided' line.
Another benefit with a mono leader, is that this is much less likely to become tangled or wrapped around your lure or bait.
So, my mono or fluoro leader is less visible than my braid..... Okay. For whatever that's worth. Personally, I don't think it's much. But for the other reasons I mentioned, I will always use a mono or fluoro leader with my braided mainline.

Peace,
Fish

PS, I use a bloodknot to attach my leaders, which are usually about 3 or 4 ft in length.

[Cooch]

No, not even when pitchin in extra heavy cover? What pound line?

Nope, never. 20 or 25# Fluoro. To quote Chris, I don't trust braid, "at the business end of my line!"

[kopper_bass]

Tony,
you thought pattern is correct, you would think tying on a longer leader would give you more ability to pull it thru, but in reality its the opposite.

the only true way to avoid the issue you're talking about is to make your leader just long enough to pitch your bait WITHOUT te knot going into the 1st eye.

Making a longer leader actually will get it hung up even more! I know, i tried this once and thought i had it figured out only to get so many backlashes and such that i finally cut it off and went short. no problems since.

Give it a try, but i promise you a longer leader is worse!

good luck,

kopper_bass

[Phil]

HERE HE COMES;
YEARS AGO A OLD FELLOW TAUGHT ME A LESSON ON THE EEL RIVER, LONG BEFORE I BECAME A BASS TOURNAMENT FISHERMAN. THEN IT WAS ALL ABOUT STEELHEAD STEELHEAD STEELHEAD. A VERY WARY FISH INDEED. I LEARNED IF A FISH IS HUNGRY, GOING TO EAT YOUR BAIT, OR JUST PISSED AT YOUR BAIT AND GOING TO ATTACK IT>>>LINE SIZE MADE NO DIFFERENCE, WE ALWAYS USED 17LB TEST, HE USED 20LB TEST , BUT SIZE AND LB TEST MADE A DIFFERENCE AS TO IF YOU WERE GOING TO LOOS THE FISH OR NOT. SINCE, I HAVE NEVER USED ANYTHING SMALLER THAN 10/12LB TRILENE GREEN FOR BASS, AND USUALLY 17LB TEST.

THATS JUST MY CHOICE AND MY .02

JIGS

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

Braid has no memory and no stretch. The lack of memory means that the slightest bite does not make it necessary for the fish to straighten out all of the memory before you feel the bite or see the line movement. The lack of stretch means that you can set the hook much easier and not move the bait 6 feet away from the fish if you miss him on the hookset. quite often he will hit it a second time because he can still see it and only thinks it was trying to get away. Drop shotting and other methods of fishing that cause a lot of line twist work much better than other lines because braid is almost unaffected by line twist.
I use a 12 foot flurocarbon leader with my braid. 12 feet because it is usually about 6 feet from my reel to me rod tip. This means that the only memory in the fluro is where it turns back down the rod from the tip. I use a double uni knot to tie the two lines together. I always use white braid because I can see the slightest twitch that the line mekes when a fish sucks it in. The 12 foot leader is because the first 6 inches to a foot above the bait is usually where any abrasion of the fluro takes place, and the longer leader allows me more reties befor I need to replace the leader. I still seem to catch as many fish when the leader gets as short as 3 feet

[Phil]

BRAID / LEADER / FLORO / TO ME JUST ANOTHER POSSIBLE LOST FISH BECAUSE OF A KNOT, EITHER HURRIED TIED, MISTIED, ABRASSIONS TO THE KNOT, ANY KNOT BETWEEN MY REEL AND THE FISH IS A WEAK LINK.

THANK YOU

JIGS

[TonyL]

All good points , thanks for the input.

[Fish Chris]

Hey Jigs, you bring up a very valid point.... a point which I often consider with all other aspects of the line between me, and the fish.

However, after having used braid with a mono / fluoro leader for all species from Bluegill to Sturgeon, and having caught numerous (comparatively wimpy) Largemouths from 13 to 18 plus lbs, "without ever" having experienced a failure at the connection between my braid and leader, I have come to believe that the benefits of a mono leader, with a good connection, STRONGLY outweigh any possible negatives.

Peace,
Fish

PS, But speaking of connections, I think this is worth repeating;

My knots (blood knots, improved clinch, and palomars) NEVER fail. However, this is not because I'm so great at tying knots {with my whacked out hand-eye thing ? Are you kidding ?} But rather, this is because when I tie a bad one (about 1 out of every 3 or 4), I always recognize it as such, and retie it... sometimes two or three times in a row, if neccessary, before it ever touches the water. In fact, when I tie a bad knot, and then recognize it, I don't even bother to give it the pull test.

Every knot you tie should always cinch down easily, and cleanly. If it isn't pretty and clean, that should be the red flag that tells you.... STOP ! Retie immediatly !

[Phil]

DO YOU EVER WONDER IF YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE BITE OR CAUGHT THE FISH WITHOUT THE LEADER ?? HUM EVER WONDER ??


JIGS

[TonyL]

No , but couldn't STOP wondering if I wasn't getting hit due to NO leader !!! "Man that fireline HASTA be visible ta the fish !!"Drove me crazy-Led me here , and ta start with the leaders!

[Phil]

I WILL ALWAYS AGREE WITH COOCH ON ONE FACT, NO LEADER. I WILL ALWAYS USE STRAIGHT TRILENE, OR STRAIGHT BRAID, IT JUST WORKS FOR ME THE PAST 40 YEARS.

THANK YOU
JIGS

[Fish Chris]

Hey Jigs, almost never do I wonder this.

Because again, I used braid tied directly to my lures / hooks for about 7 years, then have used braid with a mono or fluoro leader for going on the last 7, and noticed practically no difference in my number of bites.

Anyway, I think if their was a very small difference, one way or the other, "with Largemouths, which have very good eyesight", it might be beneficial in rare situations, to have a much less visible leader, like fluoro, or regular mono.
But to reitterate, this would be a very small part of why I use a fluoro, or mono leader.

Peace,
Fish