What makes for a great crank-bait rod??? i'm looking to buy

[W.C]

What brand, action,size or type of rod do u need to make it the perfect Cranking Rod??? do u need a rod with a extra fast tip or does it matter if the rod is 6 ft or 7 ft , whats the difference ; also who makes the best cranking rod and y?? Price of rod if u know it.
I'm looking for a crank rod and would like all your inputs on this subject .
thanks in advance for all your reply's

[Steve]

No need to talk about action of tip, or any other detail. Buy the BPS Crankin Stick, you wont be disappointed. Ive tried all of them except the high end rods, and Ive settled on the BPS Crankin Stick. The price is cheap, but you cant go wrong. Plus, its an excellent spinerbait rod.

[Whoopbass]

I use a 7' medium action BPS Crankin Rod.
Its a good rod and and BPS will occasionally have them on sale for $29.99.
The rod is sensitive enough for the application. You don't need a $150+ rod to catch reaction fish.
If I was going to spend alot of money on a crankin rod I would have it custom made instead of spending $150 on a rod off the shelf.

[Dewayne]

I could not agree more with the above. My preference is a 6.6' or 7' BPS Crankin Stick in a medium action. They are light and have a great action. At less than $50 bucks you can not find a better value. Save the dollars for rods where sensitivity is more important.

[basstratos]

I recently bought the David Fritz crankbait rod in a 6'6 medium action - about $70 and I like it better than my lamiglas rod at less than 1/2 the price.

[Elmhurst bassman]

BPS Crankin rod- I just sent through the same thing and many folks on this site recommended this rod. I picked it up on sale for 29.99 and put a curado on it-performs like a champ. Use the money you save to load up on crankbaits!!

[Steve]

I beat myself up for two years looking for the perfect cranking rod. I guess I passed over the BPS Crankin Stick due to the cheap price.

But, my buddy RC Stevens from Clear lake Oaks set me straight one day. I havent looked back since, Ive found the perfect rod.

And they are so cheap, that I have two right now that I dont use because I cant afford a reel to put on them!

[TomAtkeson]

Lamiglas, its hard to miss its bright yellow with maroon wraping. I love it it cast large and small baits beautifuly its sensitive (for a crankin rod) has plenty of line and handles good size fish very well. Its been a pure joy to own and toss a few cranks on I love it.

Now my preferance said Ill say this you should go handle a few rods ask the employees of the shops if you can mount your reel of choice to the rod and see how it balances in your hand. Maybe run your line through it and give it a couple tugs to see for your self what sort of bend it has. There are many good cranking sticks out there and every one has a favorite. You can ask others what they think and why and they can explain untill all hours of the night and you will go buy that rod convinced you will love it, take it out on the water and hate the thing. So do your self a favor hold it before you buy it.

Tom

[LukeBoden]

G-Loomis' Crankin sticks are awesome. I crank and rip with the 845. You can really feel a speed trap moving back and forth. They also make a great spook rod. I have one rod that i crank, rip, and throw a spook with. They are also VERY LIGHT! throwing Reaction Innovations Cranks on the delta is easy, since that crank bait is so light, the rod makes it easy to cast these things a mile. Right now on tacklewarehouse, theyre from $180-$200 and you get two lucky craft crankbaits with it.

[Barry]

I have had it for over 5 years now. I also have a St. Croix I love but the Fritts handles speed traps to DD22's great. Get the Fritts and invest the money you'll save on a Curado. Good luck....Barry

[Tm Customs]

I have a few loomis they are the best I have used crankbait rods usally have a soft tip w/ that you loose most of your accuracy Loomis has a moderate fast action and IMO is the best crank rod for the delta get a MH everywhere else a M.

[Cooch]

when looking at your prefered tools for cranking. Cranking, as a technique requires a very specific tool with unique properties. Sure, you can crank with any rod made by any company, but you specifically asked, " What makes for a great crankin rod?". Other posters here have given ya specific brand names, none of them really have addressed your original question. So, let's see if I can shed some light in the "what is needed" department.

Six key ingrediants go into making the perfect rod for any application. For the sake of this post, I'll just highlight those required for a crankin rod. Composition, Action, Power, taper, guide placement and weight, when all put together properly, equal the perfect balance in a crankin rod.

Composition - Over time, rods have evolved from many materials. Today, the prefered choice is by far, Fiberglass. E-Glass, has earned its place at the top of the fiberglass heap. This material is structurally the most durable of the fiberglass family. It is also the lightest and most sensative of the fiberglass family of blanks.

Taper - The measurement of the change in the diameter of the blank from tip to butt is known as "taper." Many companies use the term synonymously with "action." But actually, taper is one of the factors which rod builders use to achieve the desired action. An aggressive taper at the tip creates a faster action. A straight taper (one which changes at an equal rate throughout the blank) creates a moderate or slower action. For crankin needs, a moderate taper is required.

Action - "Action" is the measurement of deflection or flex (Parabolic bend) the rod exhibits under load, and more importantly, where that flex occurs along the length of the blank. "Extra Fast" actions concentrate more of the flex towards the tip. "Slow" actions distribute the flex progressively throughout the entire blank. Because there is no single, scientifically accurate measurement system accepted by the entire industry, not all actions are exactly alike. Crankin requires a slow to moderate action, you want that rod to have plenty of give when a bass grabs yer bait.

Power - "Power" is defined by the amount of pressure required to flex the blank. Rods are designed to optimally manage a specific range of lure and line weights. The heavier the line and lure, the more power you'll need to cast, fight and pull effectively. The lighter the line and lure, the less power you'll need. Most crankin applicatins, requies solid power for driving them treble hooks home and guiding fish to the boat.

Guides - Long over the years, proper guide placement through out the spine of the blank was, and has been overlooked by many rod builders. In recent years, more guides properly distributed along the blank is becoming the desired norm. This gives you a better balance of load through the blank, leading to greater power. It also more evenly distributes the load along the blank, preventing excessive breakage between the 2nd & 3rd guides. More guides create less "line slap" on the blank, for longer and more accurate casts. Extra guides also create more points along the blank where the line is in contact with the rod, hence providing greater sensativity and feel.

Weight - Over-all weight of your crankin rod is very important, less weight is better. Crankin is a very intensive and consuming technique. A lighter rod, over time creates less fatigue in an anglers ability to continue fishing effectively. Guides, amount and type of wrap and resin used, rod handles and butt material are the typical areas where rod builds look to make a lighter rod.

With all this said, my perfect crankin rods are custom built rods. No one rod manufacturer today, offers a crankin rod with all of the optimum variables built into their rods. Each have their own design and ideas on how a crankin rod should be built. Each, tend to leave out one variable or another. I have worked with two custom rod builders to build such a rod for my crankin needs, Steve Beichman and Jeff Skaggs.

My perect crankin rod consists of a 6'6", white(so easy to find in an over crowded rod locker), Lamiglass MB84IE E-glass blank. They are built with 11 Fuji, double footed guides on the 4 power and 12 guides on the 5 power. These are all moderate action blanks, which is imparative for crankin. Cost of these rods can run from $130-$180, depending on the componants requested and additional custom enhancements required.

They are awesome, and they are truly perfect, because they are built EXACTLY the way I want, and as an angler, need them built!

[Beach Steve Biechman]

Wow Cooch, great post. Wish I was that good at expressing myself.
Beach

[Chad S]

You said, "Today, the prefered choice is by far, Fiberglass." I agree completely.

You went on to say, "E-Glass, has earned its place at the top of the fiberglass heap." E-Glass has been around the longest but S-Glass was introduced about the same time as graphite thus got lost in the hoopla over graphite. Some top professional anglers were able to see the greatness of the S-Glass material over the older E-Glass and in the past 5-7 yrs S-Glass has earned its place as the "Best" for glass cranking and spinnerbait blank material.

"This material is structurally the most durable of the fiberglass family." Again I agree. It is the most durable because it is half the modulus of S-Glass. However, S-Glass is also extremely durable when comparred to the even higher modulus ratings of graphite.

"It is also the lightest and most sensative of the fiberglass family of blanks." Again I respectfully disagree. Because of the higher modulus of S-Glass the S is lighter and more sensitive than E. This will differ from one blank manufacturer to the next.

In the Power section you said, "Most crankin applicatins, requies solid power for driving them treble hooks home and guiding fish to the boat." I have found that, much like a drop shot, no hookset or very little hookset catches and lands more fish for me with the cranking technique. I feel this is where the "best tool for the job" comes into play and is what seperates great custom rods from the endless list of off the shelf China made stuff mentioned above.

[Cooch]

Let's take this one step further to explain, and I'll start with a basic explaination of E-Glass & S-Glass. Here's an insert I found after spending hours searching the web looking for a Rod manufacture who could explain the difference. Ironically, not one single rod website I looked at, had any kind of explaination differing the two glass types. I found this, on a Kayak site discussing paddle construction, I think it gives us the basic idea here:

E-Glass

Fiberglass is actually glass drawn into fine filaments, which is then often woven into fabric. Several different chemical formulations of the glass used in making the filaments are available, each with its advantages. None of those formulations are even similar to regular glass, such as that used in windows or bottles. The ones used for fiberglass were developed for their enhanced strength and other mechanical properties.

E-glass has been the leader of the composites industry since the late 1940s. This chemical formulation, results of the first research into uses for fibrous glass products, was developed originally for use as an insulator in the Electrical industry (hence the "E" designation before the word glass). It turns out that its mechanical strength characteristics are actually pretty good, too.

E-glass is relatively cheap, easy to make, and strong enough for non critical applications, so it's still in production for use as a structural reinforcement. Even to the point that there is probably more E glass made for reinforcement than all other reinforcing fibers combined. Why change a good thing! It's great stuff for large boats with relatively low mechanical strength requirements. Heck, it works fine in some small boats, and even in paddles if conditions aren't too demanding. The main disadvantage of E-glass is brittleness and the main advantage is low cost.

S-Glass

S-glass is a different chemical formulation of glass that enhances Structural strength characteristics (so the "S" designation before the word glass). The original S-glass was developed either by or for the Ferro Corporation, who called their formulation S-1014. Ferro, or that division, was later bought(?) by Reichhold Chemical and S-1014 production ceased by the early 80s, or so. Before that happened, Owens Corning released a slightly cheaper and slightly lower grade S-glass version they called S2-glass. Since the demise of Ferro's original, S2 has, by default, just taken over the less cumbersome S-glass designation.

S-glass's major advantages over E-glass include slightly higher strength and stiffness on a per-weight basis, and it will also stretch farther before breaking. It's main disadvantage is that it is quite a bit more expensive, and therefore, not as readily available as E-glass. Some newer variations on S-glass include things like surface treating options to make resins stick better. One method is called "direct sizing." Many of these seem to be still in the testing stage, as far as I can tell. It takes time to work the bugs out of any new material or process.

It's not a matter of being right or wrong, I was just sharing my opinion, one that is based on my experience in using and researching fiberglass rods. Ironically, as I perused several websites, Lamiglass, Gloomis, St. Coix, Hastings( Graphite USA & United Rod Manufacturing), CALSTAR, Fenwick, Berkley and Shimano, to name a few biggies in the rod business, only one company Lamiglass, makes any reference to S-Glass in their product line. So I have a hard time buying your statement, " in the past 5-7 yrs S-Glass has earned its place as the "Best" for glass cranking and spinnerbait blank material. " If this were true, I would think that EVERY rod manufacturer would be making and touting S-Glass rods. They simply aren't, hence my opinion and statement that E-glass IS the most popular.

I have used both E & S glass rods from Lamiglass. Personally, for my cranking, I felt the S-glass was too stiff for my preferences. I also felt the cost associated with the S-glass, versus the E-glass, did not justify such a difference that I should pay more for that type of rod. And these are critical opinions I've formed in responding to the original poster to what I feel is the perfect crankin rod for me.

As for power and hookset, well, you and I certainly agree the custom built rods are superior than the over the counter products. As for hooksetting and guiding to the boat, obviously we need to invite you out to California to come fish ClearLake in the fall time when the crankbait bite is one. You will git a fast lesson up there from them missle like, acrobatic, airborn dancin' crank fish, that you better set the hook on em, and have a cranking rod in yer hand that has the power ta keep em from blasting through the surface and shaking that crank out of their jaws. I'm not talking bout those lil 2-3 pound tournament bucks, we're talking about a day full of 4-7 pound, wolf pack bass that just gobble our cranks here. I know there will be dozens of guys ta read this and say, "Yup, dat be right, you nailed it Cooch".

So Chad, thanks fer joining in and expanding this topic on Crankin rods! So hows the post spawn bite on Bull Shoals, Table Rock and Truman this year? Man, been a few years since I visited those three ponds! The Ozarks and Montrose were good ones too!

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

What is you opinion of possibly using a composite rod, such as the Ugly Stick for cranks and spinnerbaits..It would seem to me that you might just get the best of both worlds, fiberglass and graphite..Not necessarily with the Ugly Stick, but with a composite type rod..

mac

[Cooch]

prolly the number one selling rod in the world! My very first bait caster was an Ugly Stik. Mines been retired fer over 20 years. Last I recall, they lacked sensativity, had insufficient guides and the reel seat and handle was not so desirable by our hi-tec standards of today. But for that niche of anglers just starting out who don't wanna spend a lot of money, that's a very popular rod.

[Chad S]

You didn't mention one of the largest glass blank manufacturers, Seeker. They have plenty of knowledge in building glass blanks both E and S. St. Criox also offers some decent, and some not so decent, S-Glass blanks. I'm not surprised you didn't find anything about S-Glass at GLoomis since as I recall they have never built glass blanks (E or S).

I'm not at all surprised your S-Glass from Lammy felt stiffer, it probably was much stiffer. This is where the stiffness to weight ratio comes into play with S-Glass and why most blank manufacturers screw up when building blanks with this material. Lammy more than likely used the same mandrel as they do with their E-Glass blanks and this is fine. But where they make a mistake is they cut the S-Glass fabric in the same pattern as they would for the E blank. Due to the greater stiffness to weight ratio of S-Glass the finished product will be stiffer than the comparable E-glass blank. What they need to do is take into account the stiffness to weight ratio of the S and use less fabric than would be used for the say 4 power E-Glass and the end result is a comparble power/action of the E but a lighter weight S-Glass blank. The lighter weight will also mean greater sensitivity.

Yes we do agree on the custom rod part of this. I use a builder in Kansas and after he built me a couple S-Glass rods I was compelled to study and learn more about this material. He and I fished a couple of tournaments together last year on a Kansas lake about half way between him and myself called Bone Creek. It took a 7 lb. average to win the first event and 6 pound average to get a check. The next event took a 6 lb average for the win. This lake has plenty of big fish to test equipment on and your not just fighting fish and grass, the trees in this lake are unreal. It's almost solid timber with a few open water areas near the dam. Even with all these obstacles to contend with the no hookset method worked just fine for catching and landing big bass. I am blessed to have been able to fish Clear Lake, the Delta, Fork and the Big O and these S-Glass blanks work great for no hookset and big fish (Crankbaits and Spinnerbaits).

Guys who are familar with this same S-Glass blank (BS706Sg) from Seeker are names like Klein, Van Dam, Matsubu, Martens, Chapman and many more. That's why I made the statement of "Best" for the past 5-7 years. I believe I saw a post that indicated Beach is familar with this blank.

I don't get to fish Bull Shoals much but the Rock and Truman are still tops in my books with Bone Creek as my new best friend.LOL I hope to get back to the Delta again in a year or so.

[Mark Langner]

As for hooksetting and guiding to the boat, obviously we need to invite you out to California to come fish ClearLake in the fall time when the crankbait bite is one. You will git a fast lesson up there from them missle like, acrobatic, airborn dancin' crank fish, that you better set the hook on em, and have a cranking rod in yer hand that has the power ta keep em from blasting through the surface and shaking that crank out of their jaws. I'm not talking bout those lil 2-3 pound tournament bucks, we're talking about a day full of 4-7 pound, wolf pack bass that just gobble our cranks here.

As you know from our day together, I gotta learn to perform a hard hookset....but to get to my question....can you elaborate a bit more about hooksets with crankbaits (and also jerk baits)...maybe discuss technique. This past Sunday I did ok, but lost a couple crankbait fish that came to the surface and spit the bait out on me. With both crankbaits and jerk baits I've simply had the fish hook themselves and I reel in keeping pressure on. This is fine, UNLESS the fish comes to the surface. I've missed the top 5 so many times cuz of fish lost on the surface and it's frustrating. I'd sure appreciate a bit more dialoge on hooksets on crankbaits/jerk baits...maybe some technique, maybe some why setting the hooks keeps the fish from throwing the bait on the surface.....struggling a bit to ask the question the right way, just not sure how I can reduce the number of lost fish when they come to the surface. Appreciate any and all advice....

[Marc]

I have been a big fan and proponent of "S" glass rods, and to this day my Lamiglas SPC 703's and SPC 704's are my favorite rods that I would miss the most if I ever lost or broke one.

I discovered these about 10 years ago, and also discovered that very few people ever bought them because most people didn't want to pay $160 + for a "glass" rod, especially with the China made glass rods that provide very good service for the price.

As it turns out, only us Lamiglas prostaffers were using them, and most prostaffers kept their mouths shut about the rod in order to keep a competitive advantage. Since Lamiglas wasn't selling many, they discontinued them for their E glass models and composite models, which both could be made for less money, and were more durable. Of course the E glass and composite models are heavier as they have thicker walls to produce the same measure of stiffness.

The S glass rods were made in 3, 4, and 5 power designations, so you could get a model that was very soft, which is my preference for keeping treble hooks from tearing out or getting thrown.

I have 4 of these rods left, and I only have that many because I searched just about every store in the west to buy the remaining models before they became extinct.

I am especially glad I had done this, as now I am being told that the last "S" glass material maker may be ceasing production of all S glass. I wonder is Seeker is still able to get "S" glass anymore.

Luckily, Lamiglas has done wonders with their E glass, and now their glass models are very light and still have the nice, even-bended slow action desireable in a crankbait rod, or any rod in which the lure uses treble hooks.

ciao,
Marc
Lamiglas Prostaff

[Cooch]

always was under the impression that the vast majority of the rods they make are in fact Saltwater blanks. Now I know Steve Beichman has made a few rods for individuals here locally using Seeker blanks and I've seen in their catalog that they do make a few models for bass fishing, both casting and spinning. Their niche, is saltwater.

In looking at their website, yesterday and more closely today, there is more mention of E-glass rods than S-glass, and everytime they indicate the use of S-glass, it's always in conjunction with a Boron composition mix. I'm just not a big fan of composit rods for crankin, so I made no mention of them.

Hey Beach, gimme a shout, Chad's got my interest up, let's talk about Seeker, gimme a shout!

[Chad S]

Thanks Cooch for the discussion. I always like to talk cranking and cranking rods.

[Marc]

To get back to the original questions, W.C., a fast action (like Cooch described) is the last action I would buy for a cranking rod. Although their sensitivity is usually better due to a fast taper, they perform miserably in comparison to a slow action in actually landing fish that get hooked.

I would choose the 6 foot model over the 7 foot model if casting accuracy is important where you fish, and I would also look for a short handle in a short rod so you can roll cast under branches and even some docks.

Whenever you are cranking open water, I recommend the 7 foot model as you get farther casts, and can also crank deeper with them (kneel and reel). You lose some casting accuracy but that isn't as important in open water. A longer handle can be helpful for those 2 handed casts for long distance or windy situations. The majority of my crankin in the west is done with 7 foot rods, and in the east with 6 foot rods. I also use a five footer for certain ponds and lakes with lots of overhanging branches, since it is easy to accurately roll cast a short rod. You do lose more fish with the shorter rods because you don't get as much shock absorption which gives the bass more chances to get slack and throw your lure, or pull too quick and tear the hooks out of the flesh.

I like rods with lifetime warranties because I don't like buying a rod twice, so that is another feature to consider.

ciao,
Marc

[Triton Mike]

I'm a little bit in left field in my rod selections compared to most. I use S Glass for darn near everything but dropshot, Flipping, C rigs and Jig worms. I do use S glass for cranking, topwater, blades, traps and jerkbaits (hope I didn't leave a tactic out. I will also say that I use Fluorocarbon in combination with my S Glass rods. We all know that Glass is usually not as sensative as graphite so I feel that the fluorocarbon can and will make up for the lacking of sensativity in these S Glass rods. Like Marc I do vary the lenghts of my rods. 6ft 6 for shorter more accurate casts and with baits that I have to impart action to like topwater and jerkbaits. Long 7ft rods for long inaccurate casts ie open water fishing with cranks, traps, blades etc.

My good friend Cooch mentioned that S Glass is more expensive? I know the blank that I use is a Seeker BS706 and it's a $40.00 blank which is light years cheaper than any graphite blank on the market. Maybe in comparison to E Glass is what he might of meant?? I have never purchased E Glass BLANK so that is quite possible. E glass is more popular than S Glass in most rod manufacturer lineups and E Glass is typically heavier than S Glass and more parabolic like Cooch mentioned. Why isn't S Glass more popular in most rod manufacturers lineups?? Thats a good question... Maybe it's lagging behind like the No foregrip, Split Grip, split reel seat fad??? Those type of custom mods are far superior to any stock rods on the market. Off the topic I will say that I don't see anything advantageous of using the spiral wrap.

The BS706 has a very unique taper almost like a hinged rod almost. It is actually a Fast action rod by description but it has a 2-3 foot soft tip and after that it's all man on backbone. So when you set the hook you really need to use your hips to set the hook through the taper and use the backbone to set the hook. Then you use the taper to fight the fish. Using your hips to set the hook is actually the proper way to set the hook. If you watch Van Dam on TV he by far has the best hookset technique going today "using his hips to set the hook".

Having said all of this the S Glass or ANY rod REALLY shines if you don't use a drag and instead FREE SPOOL the fish. That's a whole nother topic of discussion tho and is the key in my opinion to get your landing perecentages closer to 100%.

T Mike

[Marc]

T Mike,

Do you know if Seeker is currently able to purchase S Glass raw material anymore? I have been told that it may not be available any longer (I believe Corning was the only source recently, and they may have ceased production). Without the S glass matt material, rod makers can't roll the blanks.

I have only heard this second hand, and would like to confirm the information.

Who does Seeker buy their blanks from?

There are a number of China made blanks that are billed as S Glass, but who knows what they are really made of. Shina Corp. makes many of the blanks in China, Korea and Japan for many of the "US" rod manufacturers.

The availability of S Glass has been one of the biggest reasons others haven't used it, especially since most consumers don't know the difference, and don't care.

ciao,

Marc

[Triton Mike]

Marc, Too my knowledge seeker rolls their own blanks.. I talked to the owner Joseph (last name escapes me) at Icast and that is what he told me. I will be in Icast in Late July and I will ask that question about S Glass availability. I am sure I would have heard about it already if S Glass was no longer available..

T Mike

[Chad S]

I have talked with Randy Hooper at Seeker several times in the past year and to my knowledge they have no problem getting S-Glass fabric. Seeker does roll their own blanks in Long Beach, California USA. However, they are owned by a company called PT Coupling in Enid, Oklahoma USA which is owned and operated by Jim Parish.

I too will be at ICAST helping my rod builder with his boat accessories products. He has several new products coming out that will add to his already popular Flat Foot recess tray. He may be introducing some new spiral wrapped rods as well. Like Triton Mike above, Glass has become a very large part of my fishing. Induding S-Glass for Flipping, Senko style baits, pitching jigs and worms, swimming jigs, Drop Shot and Rago Rats. Actually I only use Graphite for large Swimbaits and C-Rigs.

[Marc]

The info that I heard about the S glass mat availability was something that supposedly just happened within the last month or so. Who knows, it may be completely bogus.

I hope it isn't true as there seems to be a growing recognition of the qualities of S glass. Let me know what you guys find out.

ciao,
Marc