How many batteries to run???

G-Ko · Post by **G-Ko** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:39 pm

I am thinking of all the different aspects of my boat and I was wondering how all you guys are running your equipment and the number of batteries you are using. Currently I have two batteries for the 24 volt trolling motor and one for all the rest.

Would you use another battery and keep one just for cranking?
If using a 36 volt motor would you then use five batteries?

I keep thinking that if it was a windy day and I needed to keep my livewells on all day and use the trolling motor on higher speeds a lot, that the only way to ensure the power is to keep the five battery set-up for the 36 volt system, or four for the 24 volt. Is this overkill?

I would just like to be able to run everything all day and not have to worry.

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Bill kizer · Post by **Bill kizer** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:04 pm

This is an addition to the question on the 24 volt system.

Would you gain much added trolling time by adding a third trolling motor battery. I would connect it to one of my trolling motor batteries by a parallel circut. That would keep it still at 24 volts.

I ran out of juice at Clear Lake with an hour to go yesterday.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 pm

I don't know where you are getting the number of batteries to run. If you have a trolling motor wired for 24 volts, then you only need two 12 volt batteries wired in series, plus your cranking battery. Adding additional batteries is only going to result in damage unless you have everything covered to prevent it.

I would suggest you look into an on-board charging system like StaynCharge or Steath1. With one of these you can keep your batteries fully charged off either the big motor's stator or your tow vehicle.

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:36 pm

Jax

Can you tell me more about this unit that you are talking about? The last time I was out on the lake fishing I cant remenber when I would run my big motor long enough to charge my Trojon SCS225'S. You see I run 3 and when I am done fishing the most I have ever had to run on the lake back to the ramp was 40 minuites. At that rate that unit you are talking about would have to put out 100 or more amps to charge my batteries in less than 40 minuites. With fishing time on the water travel time to the ramp I dont see how this would EVER charge my batteries enough to make a differance. Cause when I get to the house it takes 4 hours at least to get a full charge on the batteries and that is with a 3 bank 15 amp Dual-Pro on board charger. Much less the fact that the battery would ever get a full charge from the truck one eitherunless I was travling from Shasta to LA. With the price I see that they are going for the fisherman would be better off spending his money on a good set of batteries.

Now I may be wrong and I hope you can prove it to me but WE want to know how this thing works.
What is the amp out put ?
What is the voltage needed to fully charge a battery and to make sure a battery does not get a memoryfrom your unit?

G-Ko · Post by **G-Ko** » Tue May 22, 2007 8:00 am

I think I made my first post a little confusing, however i was meaning that you have the one cranking battery and two trolling motor batteries for the trolling motor. Then I was wondering if it helped at all to have another battery to run the livewells, electronics, etc. Basically i have always run the trolling motor with the required batteries and then one cranking. I was cureious if anyone felt they gained an advantage by adding another battery for livewells.

This question has come up because I have seen many people either run out of power with the winds and long days. With the FLW tournament weigh-ins sometimes lasting until 6 or later, that has to hurt the juice for livewells that long.

But also curious on that charging system.

Thanks for the advice.

Greg

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:06 pm

Hey Ralph -

I have the Stay n Charge system. Since I have added it to my boat I have not plugged my boat in once. Prior to getting the system I had 2 bad batteries. I still have those bad batteries, but but, I am getting new batteries this week to solve that. None-the-less I have fished for over 10 hours straight on Clear Lake and the Delta on several occasions, never making exceptionally long runs. Franks to Big Break -- Lakeport to the narrows are about the longest I have run. I do charge my batteries while I tow with my boat and my drive is 1 hour to the delta and 2 hours to Clear Lake.. Charging both to the lake and home from the lake.

My batteries have been fully charged when I have arrived home... and fully charged when I arrived at the lake on every trip. All I can say is, I do not know why every boat does not come with one of these in it!!! I will never own a boat again that doesn't have a this sytem in it! Its a great system and for around $300 (for the Stay N Charge) it will extend the life of your batteries PLUS give you better performance out of your batteries while you are on the water.

Again, I use the Stay N Charge system... however, I know others use the Stealth system and are happy with it as well.

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:02 pm

Thanks Tom But what iam looking for is the amp's that this system puts out. I called the company and got a run around with no direct answer. I still want to know what the system puts out on amps and how can this be a great thing when my alt. on the boat does not put out as much as the on board charger.
I know what you me about the batteries cause the ones I run have 225 min. reserve cap. Now I run three of them and from the manf. if they dont get a FULL charge then the batteries wont last as long.
I have never had a problem with the as long as I did not get stupid and not charge them or make sure they had enough liquid in them. I have also be at C.L. for the Stren and did not get a chargge one nite after along and very windy day and the Trojan's lasted any way.

So if the pro staff or the company for this unit would say how it works and how many amps it puts out then I would be a happy man

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:41 pm

Ralph, you've posted a very good question. I'm sure there are many others out there wondering how these systems work.

First off, I cannot speak for the Stealth1 system. Secondly, I am new to the StaynCharge staff and don't know all the technicalities, but I will attempt to answer your question as best I can.

The first think to keep in mind is that the StaynCharge system is not a battery charger. It doesn't output a damn thing. It simply monitors your boat's systems and directs amperage to where it's needed. Amp output is dependant on what your systems provide. How many amps will your big motor put out? How many amps will your truck alternator provide? Both, I'm sure, will put out more that the 15 amps of your charger.

Let's look at a scenerio. You put your boat in the water and fire up the big motor which takes the surface charge off the cranking battery. As soon as the StaynCharge module sees 13.5 volts at the cranking batters it starts directing amperage to the trolling batteries, cycling through them at 5 minute intervals. You stop, fish and move. The same thing happens again. Every time you run the big motor the trolling batteries are being topped off. Fishing's done. You pull your boat out of the water, connect the harness to the truck and drive home. All the time the truck's alternator is charging the boat's batteries. As Tom said, by the time you get home, you'll find all your batteries are fully charged.

I hope this has explained it sufficiently. If not I'd suggest you go to http://stayncharge.com/BB/viewforum.php ... 1b3040fe9b
or www.stayncharge.com/contact us between 6 and 7 pm CST and talk with Jim Payne directly.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:45 pm

I think the 225 alternator puts out 40 amps.. but, I am not sure. I think mercury would be the one to contact about that. Also, Jim from stay n charge is really informative. he is on this site on occassion but, you can contact him throw Stayncharge.com

The system doesn't get wired to the motor at all.. it just links the batteries together.. Jim will give you all the details. I am not a mechanical person... so I won't try to play one on here! I just know my batteries haven't been charged from a wall socket in weeks.. more than a month even and I still don't have a problem!

Smile-n-jax's explanation is right on as I understand it. I am not sure about all on-board charges, but the one I have is 15 amps.. 5 per battery... With the Stay-n-Charge... it gets 40 amps (what I am told a Optimax 225 puts out) to each battery at 5 minute intervals.. so that is 8 times as many amps as my on-board charger. My truck alt. also puts out 40 amps from what I have found on the Ford website...

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:26 pm

On the web site it says It is a battery charger. So now ya'll have me trying to figure this thing out. Is it a charger or not? Does it hook to your motor or not? How does it work?

Tom as far as your on board charger that came with your boat I think that if you look it will say it is a 15 amp charger and if it is a Dual -pro then it puts out 15 amps per leg so that would mean that it puts out 45 amps if it is a 3 bank charger. Not the 5 amps that you say. Now dual -Pro makes one that is 10 amps per bank.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:17 am

You'll need to call Jim for more details... It is not a charger.. It lets your altenator do the charging... it's just directs that power to whatever battery needs it.

You are over thinking it.

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:35 am

Tom
Iam not upset with you or any one else but just trying to get to the bottom of this. You say it is not a charger but on the web site it says " The best and last Boat Battery Charger you will ever buy!".

SO WHAT IS IT?

350V RGR · Post by **350V RGR** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:17 am

Greg,

I see were your coming from about the batteies going down and affecting your livewells. I have read were alot of Pros leave there livewell pumps on all day long and dont have a battery issue.

I maybe missing what you are asking,

[

quote]that long. This question has come up because I have seen many people either run out of power with the winds and long days. With the FLW tournament weigh-ins sometimes lasting until 6 or later, that has to hurt the juice for livewells

The long days with the wind only affect the 24/36 volt system T/M and not the 12 volt system which runs your livewells, graphs, bilge, big motor starter, and everything else that uses 12volts.

You can always run a extra 12 volt battery ( positive to positive) (negitive to negitive) but not many Pro do this and boat companys dont really offer a duel 12 volt system.

In my opinoin, if a duel 12 volt + to + / - to - type hook up was needed, Our Pro guys would be using it, There is no way a Pro going for the green, would ever not have his or her bases covered.
They have good batteries that will handle a days use.

To answer your question on some charging info. here is a link on Stealth1 http://www.stealth1charging.com/Conclusion.html

this is a good tech/test page that shows the advantage of an "charge on the run " type system.

I am not a Prostaffer like Smile_n_jack. I'm more like a happy customer like Tom. These systems DO work and like Tom I havent had a need to charge my system (Stealth1) into a 110 outlet. So its just a matter of picking a system that fits you the best.

from what I understand, (I could be wrong) the last word was Ranger Boats is installing the Stealth1's at there factory and is considering to offer a stealth1 as a OEM!!

I toyally agree with Tom, it would be hard for me to ever have a boat without one of these systems. Its like having a disadvantage and in my opinoin are the ways things are going!!

Good luck,!

[/quote]

G-Ko · Post by **G-Ko** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:14 am

Thank you for the opinions and advice. I am going to look into the charging systems mentioned above. I appreciate everyone's help.

Greg

Jim PAyne · Post by **Jim PAyne** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:35 am

I would like an answer on what you call a run around. My name is Jim Payne and I am the one you talked to because i take all calls coming in. As I told you and we tell anyone that askes. We do not detemine what amps the batteries get the batteries do. Anytime you are charging through our systems the batteries are not under any load so the draw what they want. We have a 30 amp breaker in line just in case something should happen it will protect your batteries as well as any electronics onboard. IN eight years we are not aware of not even one circuit breaker ever having to be reset. So if you need more info you are welcome to contact me anytime and i will see if i can answer your questions without any run around. Thanks

Jim PAyne · Post by **Jim PAyne** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:47 am

IF the site says it is a charger then maybe i need to have it changed and i will go through that today. The Stayncharge systems are NOT a charging system that generates anything. We take power from outside sources and we charge batteries that way and only that way.

Equipment Pros · Post by **Equipment Pros** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:59 pm

G-Ko,
I think that you are experiencing a common problem. One solution is to get the best/ largest capacity cranking battery you can fit in your boat, say a GOOD Group 31. If you have the room and can deal with the added weight, a second battery would be one option for running your live wells and electronics though this is not common practice on weight conscious bass boats. Charging the second battery may take some creativity: battery switch, parallel wiring...
An aftermarket on the run charger will not assist with charging your cranking battery at all. Note: Another way to gain the capacity is to wire your live wells to the first battery on your trolling motor bank. Keep your electronics on the cranking battery as the T motor will cause adverse surges. If you do this your problem should be less noticeable. Also, at this point an on the run charging system would be an added benefit.
Hope this helps.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Wed May 23, 2007 9:18 pm

An aftermarket on the run charger will not assist with charging your cranking battery at all. Also, at this point an on the run charging system would be an added benefit. [quote]

Michael, are you contradicting yourself or is there something else here you're not letting us on to?

I don't know about the Stealth1, but I know the StaynCharge system will charge the cranking battery as well as the trolling batteries. The end result being, with the complete StaynCharge system, you should never have to plug your batteries into an AC outlet.

Equipment Pros · Post by **Equipment Pros** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:23 am

Jax,
Sorry if it appears a little confusing. Read it carefully.
Call me directly if I can answer any questions or be of assistance.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:11 am

I put the same type of deep cycle battery in my boat for cranking as for the trolling motor. That way, there's alway enough amps for both the livewell, accessories, etc., and to crank.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:25 am

You are correct...when it comes to the CRANKING battery... the Stay N Charge will not help you. the cranking battery is already be charged by the big motor and the stay n charge does not change that at all.

I do run my livewell all day everytime I use it. I never rarely run it on Auto and I have never had a cranking battery problem. If you are wondering if I run a lot to charge my cranking battery I can say t his - I generally don't make that many runs when I fish. I generally have one to five spots in a general area that I fish, in order to maximize my fishing time (I need all I can get!)

Jim PAyne · Post by **Jim PAyne** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:05 am

Stayncharge. Ok lets do this. The Original Stayncharge hooked with the All Charge Smart box will charge the starting battery on the boat as well as up to three trolling batteries while you are towing the boat down the road. The start battery will be the first battery to be charged from your tow vehicle because it is the first one in line. I hope this helps.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:52 pm

Thanx Michael. I reread your post, also read up on the Stealth1 website, so I now understand what you were saying.

I'd like to add to what Jim said so as to clarify things and avoid any more confusion.

We offer only two products to the consumer. The original StaynCharge system is a set of harnesses which connect the towing vehicle's charging system to the boat's cranking battery, thus allowing the cranking battery to be charged while the boat is under tow. Amperage output to that battery is dependent on the vehicle's alternator/regulator circuit.

Our All-Charge system, containing the Smart Box, allows charging of the trolling batteries from the big moror's stator once the cranking battery has reached 13.5 volts. Of course, as Tom pointed out, the cranking battery is charged off the motor's stator.

So, customers considering the StaynCharge systems have two choices. They can use the original StaynCharge system and only charge their cranking battery while towing. They can use the All-Charge system and charge their trolling batteries while running the big moror. Or, they can combine the two and charge all their batteries while towing or running the big motor.

To me, it all boils down to this. Stealth1 is a battery charger while StaynCharge is not. Both do an effective job. It's just up to the consumer to figure out what is right for him.

Equipment Pros · Post by **Equipment Pros** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:14 pm

Jim and friends,
I am new to this sight and not sure as to the format.
Please understand my objective on this sight will be to assist in answering electronics related technical questions. I am not here to spin things into a product plug (or discredit any).
In an attempt to keep my descriptions brief, the inherent presupposition is that the questions asked are clearly understood. My response was directed to a question posted by G-Ko regarding cranking battery capacity for an â€œon the water condition.â€

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:47 pm

Michael, I totally agree with what you are saying. Both Jim and I are here to provide information, just as you. Hopefully, anything we say is not being considered as a plug for our product as that would be violating forum rules.

I have to admit I started the hyjacking of this thread by suggesting Greg look into an on-board system. From there others joined in and the thread got off topic. For that I apologize. It was never my intention to turn this thread into a product debate.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:11 pm

This is a easy one. I fished nine hours today. I got home and my trolling volt meter read this, FULL charge. Stayncharge rocks!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/t ... 1180143976

Ralph Harkins · Post by **Ralph Harkins** » Sat May 26, 2007 9:19 am

Nice garage with water in the bottom of it.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:49 am

Ralph Harkins wrote:Nice garage with water in the bottom of it.

Lol that was right before I put the boat on the trailer. Dont hate.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:42 pm

Where did you get that gauge, how much did it cost and how did your wire it in?

Jim PAyne · Post by **Jim PAyne** » Sat May 26, 2007 3:11 pm

biteme wrote:
Ralph Harkins wrote:Nice garage with water in the bottom of it.
Lol that was right before I put the boat on the trailer. Dont hate.

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