Deep water football jig fishing.

[acm95301]

So far I have a 7'0" Med. power Fast action St. Croix AVC70MF with Revo S Baitcaster and 12lb flurocarbon line. And I've been happily using a 1/2 and 3/4 oz Berserkbaits football jig, typically in brown with purple flake and Green graw with matching yamamoto twin tail grub.

I've been sniffing around a Dobyn's 784c ML or 744c....but what do you guys use for line and reel?

[snapitoff2002]

At Shasta I use 12lb seaguar.. but many many use 10lb. I don't use a M action rod either.. I like the backbone.. actually I have a heavy with an extra fast tip. Med heavy would be good too. When you're fishing deep, you don't want the rod to give too much, cause your line already is. Any reel would be cool, but a 7:1 would be sweet, cause you really have to take up line fast when they come at you.

[acm95301]

thanks. I was guessing that, but when they say light line for jigging...they must mean 10, but I thought 6-8. thanks for the correction.

[georgecopple]

i use a mh rod 7 ft. with 12-15lb floro depending on water clarity. if i can get away with heavier line i do. and i also like a 7.1 reel for reasons already mentioned.

[Phil]

Try Dobyns 704C. I use from 10lb to 15lb Trilene Big Game Green.
Works good for me.

[Mike Thomas]

My jig rig is as follows
Dobyns Champion 704c ( I like the backbone of a 4 power )
Shimano Curado e7 ( fast reel for getting the bait back to re-present or keep up with one running straight back at me )
12# Inviz-x ( sensitive, clear, not a lot of stretch )

The Dobyns 744c is a GREAT rod as is the DX784ML. Thats a hard call, If you dont mind spending a little bit more $$ I'd get the DX784ML..... put an E7 on it and you're flyin'

[phill strader]

The 784 with a revo is a great combo. I think you'll like the extra line you pick up on the hook set with the longer rod, and personally I like the 4 power rod for deeper jigging. Give the ganns draggin jig a try in 3/4 or 1oz, with a good quality fluro, and you'll feel everything. (if I'm fishing 10-20 feet deep, I will use a 1/2 or 3/4 oz, deeper than 20feet 3/4-1oz) The 784 is a great combination of sensativity, power, and balance....what that means is a longer rod, that is comfortable to fish with all day, that you can feel even subtle contour changes on the bottom with, and still get great hook setting power at depths of 40+ feet.

phil strader

[ash]

I tend to run higher in line then most, I use 15lb 20'+ for structure jigging and 20lb for 0-20 The 15 works well for me as a catch all, strong enough where I dont have to retie all the time and light enough to get a natural fall on the presentation.

[rich mendoza]

i use a BIG BEAR PRO 7' 3/4 heavy with a quantum tour edition in 7:1 with p-line fluoro. in 10-12lb

[acm95301]

Awesome info guys!

[Gary Dobyns]

Strader is right. Longer rods for dragging will flat catch you more fish. A 7 footer works, I've caught tons of fish with them, but if you are looking for a rod specifically for dragging deep, go longer. They pick more line up on hook sets. At 50 or 60 feet, that's a lot of line stretch also sometimes you will get a "belly" in your line. Longer rods make up for out of position hook sets as well. The 784 is a GREAT dragging rod for jigs and Carolina rigs. The 744 is also (slightly less than 784 but miles ahead of 7 footers) it also is a great rod for casting and "working" a jig. The 784 does the job too, but the 744 is better, I think, though many guys would disagree the 784 has a GREAT following.

I am told over and over "the DX 744C ML is my favorite rod".

[Oldschool]

There is trade off between a longer rod and jig control. The longer rods are a big advantage controlling the bigger bass around the boat and making longer casts.
In regards to picking up line on the hook set; you have a little advantage picking up a few inches of line. Using your reel to quickly pick up line and loading the hook point before hook setting with the rod helps a lot when making long cast. Your reel picks up about 2' of line with each crank is like doubling the rod length.
The key for me to successful hook sets on a long cast is keeping the rod tip pointed at the line entry into the water. This keeps the line belly to a minimum and the rod will move more line when you do hook set.
Tom

[mark poulson]

Tom,
Do you ever use braid with a fluoro leader for deep jigging?

[Oldschool]

No, don't like the belly that braided line creates; floates when slack and 2 FC knots to deal with. I use 10 lb FC for deeper water; 25' to 40' where wood isn't a big problem. If fishing brushy areas, then I use 14 lb FC.
Most of SoCal lakes are nearly void of deep brush and the winter bass tend to relate to rocky structure. Rather lose a few jigs and feel the bite with small diameter FC.
Tom

[DL]

No, don't like the belly that braided line creates; floates when slack and 2 FC knots to deal with. I use 10 lb FC for deeper water; 25' to 40' where wood isn't a big problem. If fishing brushy areas, then I use 14 lb FC.
Most of SoCal lakes are nearly void of deep brush and the winter bass tend to relate to rocky structure. Rather lose a few jigs and feel the bite with small diameter FC.
Tom

Tom, by backing the drag off can one get away with using 10lb line on a rod rated for 12-20 lb? The reason I ask is I like a rod with heavier action than the rods that are rated for 10 lb line...

[Oldschool]

Very few bass rods can handle more than 8 lbs of line drag. I use Lamiglas (TBC705 DS) 5 power heavy action jig rod rated for 12 to 25 lb line. 10 lb FC has about 8 lbs of knot strength, so set the drag around 4 to 5 lbs using a scale.
Tom

[PapaJohn454]

Hey OldSchool,

I used to think that smaller diameter FC meant greater sensitivity too, till I read this post from Cooch:

(Thread flourcarbon question started Mar, 09, 2007)
http://www.westernbass.com/forum/viewto ... ensitivity

-----------------------

Quote:
The smaller the line diameter the better the action imparted to your plastics...

Cooch speaking,

"I've always wondered about this, since I hear guys use this reasoning often. When fishing 20-90 feet with a dropshop, how does anyone know that thier worm has more action? I've fished a dropshot on 20# fluoro in the Delta using the 5" Yamamoto Kut tails, and have had Clients fishing the same thing on 12# fluoro, and we catch the same number of fish. A lot of times ya can see the fish come grab the worm in the shallow clear areas, and I've not notice the worm working any differently.

I like the less diameter creates less vibrations in the water that aren't picked up by the lateral lines of pressured, shy or inactive fish, theory.

Paul, I have experienced just the opposite with yer Sensativity theory. I used to fish Senkos on 12# Fluoro, I found many of the fish were getting gut hooked because I couldn't feel the bite all the time. I changed to 17# and now I don't have that problem. The thing with Fluoro and it's sensativity, is it has greater density than other lines, hence better sensativity. And the more mass you have in that line, the better the conductor is. I notice the same thing when I'm flippen jigs, I got this one rod I've been using that has 25# fluoro on it, and I can feel the bites so much more clearly than my other three rods with the 20# Fluoro. Plus that 25# fluoro really JUMPS, when a fish strikes.
_________________
Keep a Tight Line"

[PapaJohn454]

Hey OldSchool,

I used to think that smaller diameter FC meant greater sensitivity too, till I read this post from Cooch:

(Thread flourcarbon question started Mar, 09, 2007)
http://www.westernbass.com/forum/viewto ... ensitivity

-----------------------

Quote:
The smaller the line diameter the better the action imparted to your plastics...

Cooch speaking,

"I've always wondered about this, since I hear guys use this reasoning often. When fishing 20-90 feet with a dropshop, how does anyone know that thier worm has more action? I've fished a dropshot on 20# fluoro in the Delta using the 5" Yamamoto Kut tails, and have had Clients fishing the same thing on 12# fluoro, and we catch the same number of fish. A lot of times ya can see the fish come grab the worm in the shallow clear areas, and I've not notice the worm working any differently.

I like the less diameter creates less vibrations in the water that aren't picked up by the lateral lines of pressured, shy or inactive fish, theory.

Paul, I have experienced just the opposite with yer Sensativity theory. I used to fish Senkos on 12# Fluoro, I found many of the fish were getting gut hooked because I couldn't feel the bite all the time. I changed to 17# and now I don't have that problem. The thing with Fluoro and it's sensativity, is it has greater density than other lines, hence better sensativity. And the more mass you have in that line, the better the conductor is. I notice the same thing when I'm flippen jigs, I got this one rod I've been using that has 25# fluoro on it, and I can feel the bites so much more clearly than my other three rods with the 20# Fluoro. Plus that 25# fluoro really JUMPS, when a fish strikes.
_________________
Keep a Tight Line"

[some guy]

I wish I could fish against guys down here in the winter that drop shot with 20#

That just dont fly down here.. everywhere is different.. Fish are different.. water is different.. structure is different. There is no standard.. you have to be versatile.

If you are fishing the jig deep and have only one rod you have already lost.

[DL]

Very few bass rods can handle more than 8 lbs of line drag. I use Lamiglas (TBC705 DS) 5 power heavy action jig rod rated for 12 to 25 lb line. 10 lb FC has about 8 lbs of knot strength, so set the drag around 4 to 5 lbs using a scale.
Tom

Thanks Tom.

[some guy]

DL.. I have a 853 rated 12-20lb and I have pulled off 10lb FC.

[DL]

I wish I could fish against guys down here in the winter that drop shot with 20#

That just dont fly down here.. everywhere is different.. Fish are different.. water is different.. structure is different. There is no standard.. you have to be versatile.

Ain't that the truth. There are many days where 6lb won't even cut it down here. I am going lighter on everything for the upcoming season. I was always worried about fish breaking off, but I have to hook them first before I can worry about the line breaking

[DL]

DL.. I have a 853 rated 12-20lb and I have pulled off 10lb FC.

My Kistlers that are rated 12-20lb are heavier than most of the competitions rods rated for the same line. I have one with 10lb on it right now and have not had a problem. I was thinking of making the switch on the rest, I just wanted a few opinions before I did. Looks like I got my question answered...10lb it is

[acm95301]

Aweome thread guys...lots of good input.

[mark poulson]

DL,
Just remember that fluorocarbon does have some stretch, too. And the longer the line you have out, the more stretch. I think that's why Tom said to use jigs with light wire hooks. If you let out 40' of 10lb. fluoro, tie it one end to a tree (or to BC, whichever is closer), and then walk it out 'till it's taught, you'll find the you can stretch it three or four feet before it feels like it had no more give. Even then, it will "shrink" back a little when you take off the tension.
So your line is a shock absorber at that depth. That will let you fish with a stiffer rod.
It won't help you around the boat, so be sure to have your drag set so you can pull some line off instead of buttoned down. or you'll have a broken line, and a broken heart.

DL.. I have a 853 rated 12-20lb and I have pulled off 10lb FC.

My Kistlers that are rated 12-20lb are heavier than most of the competitions rods rated for the same line. I have one with 10lb on it right now and have not had a problem. I was thinking of making the switch on the rest, I just wanted a few opinions before I did. Looks like I got my question answered...10lb it is

[Oldschool]

Back in 1980's we had to use 10 to 12 lb mono to get bit at Casitas and Castiac on jigs. Crupi used 8 to 10 mono when fishing live bait to get bit. In the 60's and 70's we could use 17 lb mono and still get bit on plastics and jigs.
At night we go up to 25 lb FC without any problem. Even in the rain during the day, 14 lb FC, in clear water, is about the max diameter line we can expect bites. Swimbaits and top water, 20 to 25 lb FC works and I would use it for jigs if they would bit it.
The big Florida strain bass can be line wary, the northern strain will bite 80 braid without a leader, line diameter doesn't appear to be a factor.
Tom

[Alex M.]

I fish alot of socal lakes like Pyramid, Castaic, and Piru. These are all deep, gin clear, and are made up of predominantly rocky structure that holds fish. During most of the year I fish these lakes with a football head jig, as it is probably one of my favorite baits to fish. This type of jig really excels on the deep, shear, steep, bluff type walls. Not necessarily the best for fishing smaller or chunk rock, as it tends to find it's way into alot of cracks and crevices within the smaller rocks. If you're fishing smaller rock and in less than 20ft of water, you're probably better off with an Arky type jig in about 1/2oz range, as you'll be hard pressed to find Arky type jigs anyway in the 3/4oz-1oz range. the weight of the 1/2oz jig + the yammie trailer should work fine, unless it gets pretty gusty. If you're going deeper than 20ft, and on steeper larger rock type walls, football is a sure bet.

I'm probably going against the grain here with my setup, but I haven't had any problems or malfunctions to date. If it ain't broke, and you're cashing checks.....Don't fix it....LOL

Rod = Like John said, it's tuff to get the job done when you're are limited to only 1 rod. With that being said, I use a variety of Loomis rods from the MBR844c to custom jig sticks that I've had made for me by Marc Higashi @ Performance Tackle, which are by far my favorite for the bigger football jigs. I'm gonna agree with most and say that the Med power rod is a bit underpowered for this technique. 80/20 would be a good starting point...this means a rod with 80% backbone and about 20% tip. Usually a 7'-7'6"(I have my custom rods made to 7'5") is the preferred length, so figure out what you're comfortable with and what works for YOU most importantly.

Line = I use 30Lb powerpro phantom red, with about 2 arm lengths of 16Lb fluoro for a leader. I was a pure fc guy before this, until I was shown the light, and never looked back. I'll admit, it's not for everyone. Once you've tied the uni to uni knot a few times it's very easy, but I rarely ever need to retie my leader, unless I've just retied too many times because of abrasions on the line near the jig or what not and require more leader. I can feel 'em breathing on my jigs practicallyas well as cast a country mile with a big jig and small 30Lb braid diameter(equivalent to 8Lb mono). I haven't dumped a big fished or missed a jig bite in a very long time. I haven't experienced any difficulties with my line bowing at all either. I really like the braid for this, except at Clear Lake, where that jagged, volcanic, pumice-like rock just destroys and frays braid....In which case I use straight fc, as it actually holds up better around that type of structure.

Reel = Again going against the grain with the slower 5.8:1 gear ratio of the Daiwa Alphas-ito. It's a compact bait-caster, pretty much a Japanese version mirror image of the Sol with some upgrades. But the point is that when I'm fishing that deep(and SLOW), I like the thought of advancing the jig in the shortest and smallest increments possible, and the slower gear ratio helps keep me in check.....well....that and subtle movements and lifting of the rod tip. Also when you hook a fish that deep, it's not advisable to winch him to the surface with a burner reel. Unless you wanna give 'em a really extreme case of the bends. Fight 'em slow, keep yer rod loaded, and your mortality rate should be zero for the most part.....

Jigs = I pour my own lead, so I make custom 3/4 and 1oz football heads. I use Gamakatsu 4/0 heavy gauge flat eye jig hooks. The hook shank is a bit shorter on these jigs once poured, which gives it a nice, bulky, and compact profile. I use mostly living rubber and silicone for accent colors. I steer clear of rubber bands and collars, and I only tie with wire. As far as trailers go, stick with your Yammie twin tail grubs, they're probably one of the best all time trailers, just ask around. If the fish are really lethargic, you might try a bait with less action that's a little more mundane....like a sweet beaver.

Hope this helps. There's plenty of great advice, and this just another west coast jig guy's perspective.