Bass Fishing Forum - Westernbass.com

I have heard rumors that certain anglers both at DVL and Clear Lake have been known to cast their lures behind the boat, let out even more line with the use of the trolling motor, and then with the use of the trolling motor, and a VERY SLOW RETRIEVE, bring their swimbait/crankbait back to the boat.

The obvious advantage is that you can get your crankbait deeper and for a longer period of time. As for the swimbait, you can cover more water in the deep water column, and not spook the fish.

Is this legal? If so, where do you draw the line and prevent it from be considered trolling? I know people do it quite frequently with Carolina rigs, so what is going to stop people from doing it reaction lures?

Tournament directors, please respond!

I'm no TD of course, but that practice is CLEARLY illegal for tournament fishing in the organizations that I have fished.

100% Bass
Trolling, as a method of fishing, is prohibited. All fish must be caught live and in a conventional angling method. All fishing must be done from a boat. Line may not be feed out any longer than a normal cast plus 10 yards for bait to fall to bottom, this will constitute trolling if exceeded. Conventional cast and retrieve method of fishing is what is expected. Trolling motors may not be used to extend the length of your cast.

ABA
Trolling, also referred to as ripping / sweeping or jerking, is prohibited. Cast and retrieve methods of ripping and jerking are legal.

NBW
Trolling with the aid of combustion or electric motors is not permitted.

Top Stick
The use of live or cut bait, trolling, fishing with more than one rod, or violating any California Sport Fishing regulations is not allowed.

WON Bass
Trolling, (the act of manipulating the lure solely by maneuvering the boat under any type of power) is prohibited.

US AC
Trolling with the aid of combustion or electric motors is not permitted.


Now for the definition of trolling:

troll 1 (trōl) Pronunciation Key
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls
v. tr.

1. To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.
2. To fish in by trailing a baited line: troll the lake for bass.
3. To trail (a baited line) in fishing.
4. To fish by trailing a line, as from a moving boat.

So clearly dragging a bait while using the trolling or main motor is a violation of the tournament rules for each of the above organizations.


Here's the other one that has come into question in the recent past:
Culling must take place once the tournament limit per TEAM is exceeded. Only the tournament limit of fish may be possessed at any time.


Roger

troll v.,n. To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"; which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling";, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.

The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll.

If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it.

The following extract is from a broader expansion of the defining comments given above:

In Usenet usage, a troll is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses.

The content of a "troll posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of a newsgroup, or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.

There are three reasons why people troll newsgroups:

People post such messages to get attention, to disrupt newsgroups, and simply to make trouble.

Career trollers tend for the latter two whilst the former is the mark of the clueless newbie and should be ignored.


------------------------------------------------------------------

Or this could be strolling..... as seen at several WON team events at Lake Perris by the dam -- which is perfectly legal.

Sorry Brian, but good god bro...Pleather?? EEEEUuuuuuuuuuuuuu.......

Hey Brian isnt that pic of Matt and DL two years ago at Havasu just before Matt and Robert broke up?? I knew Matt was cheating on Robert!!!


Pete

What about drifting, I've seen that done on more than one occassion with a bubba rig. Fire it out there a long way, add 10 yards and let the wind do the work (no power used). Is that legal?

it is legal to cast out troll with an open spool, then start reeling


thats what the guys at CL were doing

Strolling from what I heard was to cas behind and use the trolling motor with an open spool free lining out behind the boat. When you get a good distence away you then use the rod and reel to add the action over that great length.

Sound very grey area to me.

Drifting would be completely legal form of dead sticking

Brian D,

Yes it was a rhetorical question. Obiviously it isn't legal, but people are doing it. I posted this here to make a stand so nobody would ever state they didn't know better.

Is this your preferred method of fishing??? Is that why you are trying to squash this topic. Just because post 50 times a day and have nothing better to, does not give you the right to judge the motives of other people's posts.

I pay my money just like everyone else does at these tournaments and expect to be fishing the same rules as everyone else does, that is the motive behind my post.

If you haven't heard of strolling, you may want to take your head out of the sand.

Keith Beever

Amazing....simply amazing.

kbeever....i think you might be wrong here, the way the guys are doing it is not illegal, the bait does not move while the trolling motor is being used. They use it to distance themselves from the bait and have a longer retrieve and better chance of catching.


it is legal. They have admitted to doing it.

I think that Brian was just trying to have some fun. I dont think he is a dragger, a troller, or anything like that. Hell Brian cant even catch fish so maybe he should start doing them.

You do have a valid question though.... and in an answer to your question... Guys DO drag baits under power of the trolling motor i.e. Carolina rigs and split shot rigs. It is NOT legal but its surprising how many people accept the practice. That doesnt mean its legal and can be protested but another team would have to protest as well to make it valid, then it would have to be up to the tournament director to make the decision. I personally dont drag or troll a bait EVER under the power of the trolling motor ....to boring for me. I personally would be coming out of my skin within 5 minutes of doing that crap.
As far as the guys that are casting out and moving the boat away from the bait ....I dont know the rule on that but dont see, nor have a problem with that. It s the guys that drag baits all over the lake with the troller that I frown on.

Pete

Is it legal to hold hands with your partner when strolling???? This can be very nice on those cold days!

Pete, keep that on the down low...I dont want anyone posting any more pics of me in my leather pants....

Brian, please bring back the Black leather pants!

Just from what I have seen out here in cal sence I have been back It happens ALOT
I'm a new kid on the block and from what I seen in my club is alot of poeple do the draging I know they say its ok but to me its just the same as trolling just slower. Last year I got into the fed and I seen alot of this draging and I seen what I guess its called Strolling going on too and it seens to be ok there to.
I guess part of the thing like Pete said poeple do it and others don't want to rub anyone the wrong way so nobody Says a word.

I know when your not in the click and or just starting out with a org you really don't want to say a word about anything. I also think that no one says sh*t because whats it going to get you but a bad name with the rest of the guys your fish around. There is really no way to show what someone is doing unless your out there with a video cam going and who the h*ll wants to go though all of that

I for 1 just look at it like if thats what you need to do to get on fish more power to you. I myself will never do any of this stuff because I'm really a power fisherman and I like to fish fast, It kills me to D/S because its Soooo Slow that when I do D/S I do what I call Power D/S and I D/S fast. Man there is no way I could put out a bait and stay on my trolling motor for 500 plus yards with out even casting again but it happens all the time

The problem I do have with this Strolling and Draging and anything else you would like to call this stuff is How a person or team can come up and say well your to close to me and my bait etc, if your on a point then fish the point but how the hell do I know that your bait is 50 yards behind you and you want to tie up the whole point and shore line. The lakes are to Small out here to really have this type of stuff going on.

Its bad when you have 3-4 boats trying to fish 1 spot now theres guys that want to take up 200 yards of shore line both ways form every point or hump on the lake and just troll up and down the spots

anyways this is just my 2 cents worth, I guess the bottem line is don't worry about what anyone is doing and just go fish your 10'X10' spot and hope someone does not want to drag, stroll or troll though your area/ spot

Amazing with all the TDs that read these threads that we haven't had any respond to this topic, especially since it was directed towards them... I'd really like to see how all our local tournament directors believe this maps to their organizations' tournament rules?

tunaman wrote:Amazing with all the TDs that read these threads that we haven't had any respond to this topic, especially since it was directed towards them... I'd really like to see how all our local tournament directors believe this maps to their organizations' tournament rules?

Me too!

The method is a very effective method of fishing...especially fishing a swimbait real slow on the bottom for a prolonged period of time or maximizing the depth of a crankbait. As I stated before, I want everyone fishing the same rules and also interpret the rules the same.

Ron C. , Mike M, Lynne P,...anyone of you care to give us your stance on this subject?

During a Skeeter's Owner tourney, on the Bass Champs TV show, Jay Yelas, demonstrated "the Stroll". I'm pretty sure that it was legal, as long as the bait doesn't move, while you're acquiring the new boat position. For those that haven't seen this show, it is worth watching. They let all boat owners wear their own clothing and everything, up on the stage, even the Ranger guys. Hmmm!

Murph wrote:During a Skeeter's Owner tourney, on the Bass Champs TV show, Jay Yelas, demonstrated "the Stroll". I'm pretty sure that it was legal, as long as the bait doesn't move, while you're acquiring the new boat position.

According to the rules from the organizations posted above, if the stroll was further than 10 yards (from the distance of the original cast) and the event was a 100% Bass tournament, it would not be legal. For the rest, it looks like it would be allowed.

Roger

(Edit - above refers only to the 100% Bass tournament rules, which was omitted from the original response)

Thanks Mike for clearing that up with the ABA trnys Rules

Kirk

Mike M wrote:Strolling is not legal in any ABA tournament. You cannot cast and then move your boat under any form of artifical power (big motor, trolling motor, paddle, etc..). Simply put it is legal for you to chuck and wind in your bait but it is NOT legal to Troll, Stroll, or do anything similar to those acts in a tournament.

The vast majority of rules in bass fishing tournaments are actually pretty straight forward but given the nature of the dollar amounts given out at each event they have gotten much more legal in nature in order to prevent cheating and to keep the playing field level for everyone.

Hmmm Mike - playing the devil's advocate here, and in re-reviewing the ABA rules once more just to be certain, I don't see anything to indicate that this would not be allowed... in absence of a rule, a practice is permissible. Below is the entire section regarding "PERMITTED FISHING METHODS AND TACKLE" for reference:

6) PERMITTED FISHING METHODS AND TACKLE - All fish must be caught live in a conventional and sporting manner. Trolling, also referred to as ripping / sweeping or jerking, is prohibited. Cast and retrieve methods of ripping and jerking are legal. Only artificial lures may be used with the exception of pork rind or deer hide. No prepared or live bait may be used. The intentional snagging of fish is strictly prohibited. Landing nets are permitted in American Bass events. Only one “rod and reelâ€

Also, not sure I've ever seen trolling also referred to as ripping, sweeping or jerking... that's an interesting and unusual interpretation.

Roger

I am not a lawyer but after reading the rules from the different org's that were posted by keith, my interpretation is that the only org that has a rule with verbage clear enough to prohibit strolling is 100% Bass. I have heard people say it is illegal and I have heard others say, if you read the rules you will see that it is not. I have never practiced this type of fishing but I know that people do it. It would be nice to hear from a director or rep from the above mentioned org's. The verbage used by the org's other than 100% bass is vague and as far as I can tell does not render this practice illegal. It almost seems like this practice falls under the "Sweet Dick Willie Clinton" policy of dont ask dont tell.

JW

Jay I heard you were a stroller from way back.
You have been seen strolling down the boardwalk in H.B. with Dolphin shorts and a Marlboro in your mouth.

My good man, are you mocking my attire. I love those shorts but my nuts are sagging so low these days that they are reserved for couch during football games. I have been contemplating bringing them out again. Hell, if young girls can wear butt-floss in HB why cant I rock the banana hammock. What do you think Ray

JW

Rock the Banana hammock classic bud.
Hey come by and say hey when you get time over the weekend.

I can speak for any Top Stick event. A few years ago I wrote a clarification as to my interpetation of the "strolling". My approach to any tournament is the same no matter who's event, WON, 100% ABA. During tournament hours you must cast and retrieve with a rod and reel and not advance the bait with a combustible or electric motor.
The next issue comes with how does a director control that? He can't "dragging" is a method that many and I mean many tournament anglers use effectively. If you disqualified one you would have to disqualify half the field.

Do I do it no......although the way I have been not catching fish lately I've been thinking about it because it is a very effective way to catch fish.
John Barron
The "Top Stick Tour"

Thanks JB.

ABA's rule about Ripping/Jerking was created about 20 years ago mybe 15. It was instituted because back then a few anglers mostly around Lake Isabella was taking a jerk bait or crank bait and with their trolling motor on high going down the bank ripping their baits. It was a very effective technique but bordered on trolling because until you caught a fish you only made the initial cast.

Chris Koda

Thanks John for your honest answer.

This is the reason I started this post. I think we have all drifted a carolina rig in the wind...but going down a bank with your trolling motor real slow is a whole different story.

I will make sure to bring it up to my tournament director next tournament. Like you said, it is a very effective method of catching fish, if it is allowed, then I will do it, especially as we get into winter fishing...that is if we ever have a winter in So Cal.

As far as I can see, no one has addressed the question properly. Is it or is it not illegal to cast, leave your reel open and run the trolling motor to in effect lengthen your cast? The only org that addresses this with their rule is 100% bass. We have all heard the rumors of winners on a certain N. Cal lake that allegedly use this technique of lengthening their cast. Lengthening your cast is not trolling. Is lengthening your cast legal or not?

JW

jay wright wrote:As far as I can see, no one has addressed the question properly. Is it or is it not illegal to cast, leave your reel open and run the trolling motor to in effect lengthen your cast? The only org that addresses this with their rule is 100% bass. We have all heard the rumors of winners on a certain N. Cal lake that allegedly use this technique of lengthening their cast. Lengthening your cast is not trolling. Is lengthening your cast legal or not?

JW

The TD's are not going to open this can of worms that shows allready because then have stay away from this allday

Don't ask don't tell is not a good policy. I think this needs to be clarified.

JW

*NM*

I don't think that there is a rule in any organization that prohibits casting and moving away from that cast with your bail open. I stressed word "think" because while I have read every organizations rules I do not remember reading that specific prohibition. It is not trolling. You are repositioning your boat but not moving your bait with the trolling motor. I would have a hard time calling that illegal in any way but I will reread some of the rules.

Several years ago we used to C rig a deep diving crank bait which is where the team your talking about very possibly got the idea but I could be wrong. Similarly we could cast our crankbaits a lot farther and go to whatever depth we wanted depending on what weight we put on our rig.

I don't believe that technique is illegal. I know a few people, myself included, that have made a cast with a plastic worm all electronics off and backed out as slowly as quietly as possible. I guess no different than modifying a bait you're just modifying a technique. Just because it's different doesn't make it illegal. I applaud them for figuring it out.
John Barron

John Barron wrote:I don't think that there is a rule in any organization that prohibits casting and moving away from that cast with your bail open. I stressed word "think" because while I have read every organizations rules I do not remember reading that specific prohibition. It is not trolling. You are repositioning your boat but not moving your bait with the trolling motor. I would have a hard time calling that illegal in any way but I will reread some of the rules.

Actually JB, as mentioned 100% Bass does indeed address that technique and consider it not permissible - I'll repost their relevant section here for convenience:

Line may not be feed out any longer than a normal cast plus 10 yards for bait to fall to bottom, this will constitute trolling if exceeded. Conventional cast and retrieve method of fishing is what is expected. Trolling motors may not be used to extend the length of your cast.

None of the other organizations' rules that I read seemed to address this, so presumably its permissible for those organizations' events.

Roger

John Barron wrote:I know a few people, myself included, that have made a cast with a plastic worm all electronics off and backed out as slowly as quietly as possible.

Very effective technique at Lake Mead and currently, if I have read all my rules correctly, is only not doable in an 100% Bass event.

And as far as I am concerned doesn't need to be rule. Just like the 8' Rod rule that doesn't need to exist either

I will try to get through reading the rules again soon. When I'm just making comparisons of the rules of different organizations I'm not necessarily looking for specifics it's more generalities. That's why stressed "I think".

100% may very well address that specific technique I don't remember and I think you are right none of the rest do. I will look again and see what I see.
jb

So, if dragging a bait with the trolling motor is to be considered an illeagal means of catching a fish why don'twe get the rules say exactly that? That would end the controversey. I don't have a problem with that. Oh well, I guess we all just like the drama.

I did a quick review of specifically "equipment". Of the SoCal org's only 100% BASS truly addresses the original question of casting and using the trolling motor to move away from the bait. Rule 19 last sentence reads "Trolling motors may not be used to extend the length of your cast". The rest all say "no trolling"
John Barron

BTW please stop by the Bass-A-Thon and see the new GK Qwik-Release Backseat Trolling motor mount available soon!
jb

I have seen alot of big names at DVL draggin worms around.. Infact i have heard one of the bigger names claim, "whatever it takes to catch fish" I have dragged a few times , but never with the trolling motor, we use to use the wind. We just ruled it out of our arsenal because we dont want to be labeled "draggers" like alot of the guys out at DVL.

John Barron wrote:BTW please stop by the Bass-A-Thon and see the new GK Qwik-Release Backseat Trolling motor mount available soon!
jb

That's just funny cr@p right there JB!!! LMAO!

Thanks for the morning laugh!

Roger

Dragging with power, and 'longline' trolling, are both very effective methods for catching bass. It was my understanding, when I first started getting into tournament bass fishing, that both of those techniques are not legal on tournament day... in fact I believe in Bill's BBZ book he specifically states as such regarding long lining, if I recall correctly (I've only read it through cover-to-cover twice).

That being the case, I've just never employed either technique as they didn't seem to be 'sanctioned' methods. I guess its time I start, as it sounds like dragging is one of the more effective techniques (and lord knows I can use all the help I can get!).

This has been an informative discussion.



Next up - "HOW TO FILE A TOURNAMENT PROTEST, INCLUDING TIPS AND TECHNIQUES FOR IDENTIFYING AND DOCUMENTING INFRACTIONS"



Just joshin'!!!

See most of you at the Bass-A-Thon!

Roger

tunaman wrote:Next up - "HOW TO FILE A TOURNAMENT PROTEST, INCLUDING TIPS AND TECHNIQUES FOR IDENTIFYING AND DOCUMENTING INFRACTIONS"

Probably not a bad idea with all the energy people are spending worrying about what somebody else is doing

I prefer to spend my energies trying to figure out what dem pea brained bass are up to

gt5bass wrote:

tunaman wrote:Next up - "HOW TO FILE A TOURNAMENT PROTEST, INCLUDING TIPS AND TECHNIQUES FOR IDENTIFYING AND DOCUMENTING INFRACTIONS"

Probably not a bad idea with all the energy people are spending worrying about what somebody else is doing

I prefer to spend my energies trying to figure out what dem pea brained bass are up to

Gary,

Your missing the whole point of this topic, it is not about who is doing what, it is a matter of playing by the rules.

If strolling is legitimate, I want have the ability to use that in my arsenal of techniques, if it isn't, than I won't bother. During prefish I will sometimes use this technique to find fish, it can be very effective, especially when the bite is slow.

The last thing a tournament fishermans wants is to be known as a cheater, especially when there is no ill intent to deceive.

Hopefully the tournament directors will get together and add clarity to this once and for all.

If there was any known cheating going on in a tournament Gary was in hewould be in the protest line with anybody else that wouldnt want their money stolen from them by cheats. Dont let his comments get to you...
Sometimes guys act like something isnt a big deal until something happens to them or until they feel slighted....then all of a sudden they care......

I personally think its rude when people talk crap about something that other people think is important, especially for the sake of making other people laugh....but whatever....bad karma makes its rounds.


Pete

Does this mean that we can "Stroll" and "Drag", to our hearts delight, should one, decide to employ these methods? Does no response mean that it's a non-issue?

Kbeever wrote:Gary,

Your missing the whole point of this topic, it is not about who is doing what, it is a matter of playing by the rules.

If strolling is legitimate, I want have the ability to use that in my arsenal of techniques, if it isn't, than I won't bother. During prefish I will sometimes use this technique to find fish, it can be very effective, especially when the bite is slow.

The last thing a tournament fishermans wants is to be known as a cheater, especially when there is no ill intent to deceive.

Hopefully the tournament directors will get together and add clarity to this once and for all.

Didn't miss the point at all. I expressed my opinion above (opinions are all you are going to get in a FORUM for the most part, if you want answers, pick up the phone and call the Organizations...they will (better be able to) give the actual answers you are looking for...the guys fishin' don't make the rules). We don't need a anti- draggin', strolling, let your line out rule. Why are we always afraid when someone finds a way to catch fish outside of "our" envelope? If it is not violating the DFG regulations for catching fish in a sporting manner in a bass tournament, what is the problem?

I think you missed the point of my post... spend your time doing something you have control over not worrying what someone else is doing. If you catch someone obviously violating a rule during an event (rules that can only be clarified by the TD or Org), I believe you are obligated to report such infraction after you weigh your fish. But to go out an LOOK for people commiting infractions while you should be focusing on YOUR fishing is just...well silly...and I will enjoy taking your money as I will be focusing on catching fish! not what someone else is doing!

Pete Marino wrote:If there was any known cheating going on in a tournament Gary was in hewould be in the protest line with anybody else that wouldnt want their money stolen from them by cheats. Dont let his comments get to you...
Sometimes guys act like something isnt a big deal until something happens to them or until they feel slighted....then all of a sudden they care......

I personally think its rude when people talk crap about something that other people think is important, especially for the sake of making other people laugh....but whatever....bad karma makes its rounds.


Pete

Damn Straight Pete,

If I am witness to documentable/protestable cheating in a tournament I will be in line to report it. I have been first in line to report myself several times as I got put in questionable areas of the rules several times while fishing as a Co-Angler (ask Chris Jones how many times I came up to him at after weigh-in to verify if I had violated a rule).