fizz your fish dammit!

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:19 am

Was fishing at a lake yesterday, and when we came in for weigh in another club was releasing their fish back into the water after their weigh in.

As we motored in to the ramp I netted one bass floating on the surface with obvious swimbladder issues, and there were 2 others floating near the ramp. There was one guy from the group that asked for help in popping his fish, but the fish was already pretty far gone. When his fish was popped it sounded like a balloon going off, I was 10' away and could hear the gas being released. That is plain wrong on so many levels

Fish caught and quickly removed from deep water often show signs of depressurization. The most obvious signs of depressurization are an over-inflated swim bladder, erratic swimming behavior, the inability to submerge when released, and/or red on the edges of the tail, dorsal fin, and/or mouth. Death can result from gas embolisms, predation or exposure if fish are unable to re-submerge, or from internal organ damage.

Additionally, although the most obvious sign of rapid depressurization is an over inflated swim bladder, there is also internal damage that occurs to the brain and heart (as a result of gas bubbles in the blood). Damage to the brain and heart is often the cause of death in these fish and fizzing will not correct for this type of injury.

These fish had been floating upside in the livewell all day without being popped - major distress which is usually 100% fatal.

If you're interested enough in bass fishing to fish club tournaments then you damn sure have the ability to learn to fizz your fish.

If the bass appears bloated and can't upright itself, deflation may be required. To fizz the bass locate the swim bladder. The bladder is in line with the dorsal notch, below the lateral line and above the anal vent, approximately midway (see diagram). Hold the bass below the water's surgace. Slide the fizzing needle under a scale and at an upward angle. This will puncture the swim bladder. Done correctly you will see air bubbles and hear a fizzing sound. When the bubbles subside, your fish is ready for release. To properly release, make several figure 8's. Hold the bass by the lip and below the surface. We don't recommend the push and pull method. Before using the fizzle needle again, rinse and check for clogs.

http://www.iovino.com/fizzkit.htm

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/pubs/Fizzing.pdf

http://www.mwbt.com/articlefizzprey1105.htm

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl ... tnG=Search

Even if you chose not to learn to fizz then I'm pretty certain that:

1) you have eyes to see that your fish is upside down in the livewell and that it is in distress

2) you have a mouth to use to ask someone else to help you pop the fish prior to putting it in the live so that it stands a good chance of surviving to be caught another day.

But if you are going to wait till weigh in to fizz your fish then chances are you've given it a death sentence even if you do manage to release it "alive".

Killing fish due to stupidity or laziness or ignorance is wrong - be responsible and fizz the fish before putting it in your livewell. Don't wait till weigh in to fizz your fish!

rant mode off

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:34 am

And if you aren't going to fizz them, please take them home and eat them..At least is won't we a total waste..

mac

basstamer · Post by **basstamer** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:26 pm

Thank you for posting the diagram! VERY few people know how to do it-at least I hope that is why it isnt done more! It actually pretty cool to do-I hope you have helped someone learn the technique.

Randy Turner · Post by **Randy Turner** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:54 pm

Mike
If the bass does not exhibit the symptoms you describe, is there a certian depth at which you should be concerned that pressure issues may arise?
Randy

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:13 pm

Randy,

Most of the fish that we caught came out of 18'+ and were in need of a needle. Not sure how the low barometric pressure with the storm front moving in affects the equation, but I was suprised to see so many fish in need of a needle at what are normally depths we pull fish out of without issue.

Its not so much the watching the depth, although its a given that a fish brought up from 20-30' will definately swim upside down, its the fishes ability to remain boyant once in the livewell.

Fish that have overinflated swimbladders are obvious by their disproportionate mid section bulges and swimming on their sides or floating belly up

Bringing them up slowly might allow them to adjust on their own and increase their survival rate - but may decrease your catch rate...

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:35 pm

RogerB · Post by **RogerB** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:03 pm

That's a REALLY helpful graphic of the bass's innards.

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:10 am

Its getting to be that time of year again, so I wanted to resurect this thread in the hopes of saving more fish vs. losing them to ignorance.

Yamamoto's Inside Line magazine has an excellent article on fizzing fish at http://www.insideline.net/1999/sak-0102-99.html by Brian Sak

An image from Brian's article:

I saw a new technique the other day that showed how to go in thru the fishes mouth, this should be a much safer technique since it seems that it would avoid the heart and go straight at the swim bladder. I'll look around to see if I can find that image and the info again.

Marc Marcantonio has written this article on swim bladder deflating and posted it here on WesternBass: http://www.westernbass.com/dotcom/libra ... ml?id=2527

So --- take care of the fish you catch, take the time to deflate the swim bladder, don't let them swim upside down in the livewell. If you know that you are going to be fishing deep then come prepared with a needle and have it ready to go and nearby before you put the boat in the water. Be a responsible angler!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:32 am

If you are in the area,(Don Pedro or Mc Clure) please come by our shop. We will teach you and show you how to fiz your Bass.

Thank you

Jigs

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:40 am

I saw a new technique the other day that showed how to go in thru the fishes mouth, this should be a much safer technique since it seems that it would avoid the heart and go straight at the swim bladder. I'll look around to see if I can find that image and the info again.

here it is, its from another fizzing thread here on WB: http://westernbass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17873&

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:59 am

did anyone ever answer the question how deep to go into the mouth etc ? Can you still hit a vital organ ??
I still prefer thru the side myself , I guess because it is what I was taught ??

Jigs

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:13 am

Great Info for all, it is that time of yr and more poeple need to get this down

Maybe there could be two 1 locked forums on both sides North and south with this Info and all the info that could be got,so it would stay up on the top of the pages ????

Kirk

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:37 am

apparently kopper bass made up that image, here is the text that goes with:

I'm no expert,
but a guy showed me this winter up on Lake Shasta how to do this and it worked much easier and nicer than from the side.

You need a long needle to do this because you gotta put this thing in the fishes mouth. so you can imagine that on smaller fish its hard to get in there.

All you need to do is this.
Open the fishes mouth and look inside. find the two white tangs at the top of the fish's mouth (they look sorta like tonsils hanging down). You insert the needle in the middle of these two tangs in the soft fleshy part. The tangs are hard, so you'll know you can't insert them there. Push the needle in easy about 1-1.5 inches and then lightly squeeze the fishes belly. if no air comes out, try just a bit deeper with the needle. (you can also hold the fish in the water to see the bubbles coming out the needle).

That's it. remove the needle and let the fish go. He'll be fine.

DON"T stick the needle in the fish's gullet as this could harm the fish and poke a hole in its primary organs, like its stomach. Also, the bladder rides up high, so thats why its better to insert at the top and not at the gullet.

ignore the hook and pliers - i doctored a picture for this demo.

http://westernbass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11710

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:46 am

JIGS TACKLE wrote:did anyone ever answer the question how deep to go into the mouth etc ? Can you still hit a vital organ ??
I still prefer thru the side myself , I guess because it is what I was taught ??

Jigs

Needle is inserted slowly 1-1.5" deep, listening for the air release. In looking at the pictures it would appear that the swim bladder will distend towards the front, so the only thing behind the wall in the mouth would be the swim bladder, the other organs are below and brain is above. Have never tried it, but it seems pretty safe

others have noted that this technique works better on larger fish due to the ease of getting into the large mouth, and the potential difficulty in poking a fat fish on the side

Keep in mind that this is a bit of a no brainer, if you don't pop the fish you are dragging around upside down in the livewell he is as good as dead anyway due to the internal damage caused by the "baro-trauma" - even if you are not confident in your technique you might as well give it a go and see if you can get lucky. Print the info/pictures and stuff it in your back pocket so that when you pull that monster from the deep you have the info handy.

TTCal · Post by **TTCal** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:33 am

Good stuff here.. thanks MikeD!

ironmanlu377 · Post by **ironmanlu377** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:15 pm

Thanks 4 all the info guys just a reminder if going thru the side go under the scales if you go thru the scale it will clog the needle and not let the air escape just my 2 cents

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:22 pm

As I said earlier, if you do not fizz your fish, for heavens sake at least take them home and use them for FOOD, even if it is plant food..Do not waste the resource..Bass can be great eating..OK, now let me hear from all of you purist that always catch and release, even if the fish is certain to die..

mac

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:09 am

Can this happen if the fish is immediately released?
I've taken some fish from some deep water 10'-20', but immediately let them go and they exhibited NO signs of swim problems. So does this only apply to fish taken from the lake and put into a livewell?

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:39 am

If the fish can immediately return to deep water, or what ever, when you release them, then it is not a problem at all..If a fish has a problem, it cannot return to deep water without assistance..Chances are if you catch one and immediately let it go, it will eventually make it back to depth..Placing it in the livewell may increase the probability of a problem..This is why it is important to know how to fizz (release the pressure) on your catch..

mac

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:21 am

I'm waiting ro Rejuevenade to come out with their version of Beano, so the fish won't have gas at all.

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:20 am

StockOption wrote:Can this happen if the fish is immediately released?
I've taken some fish from some deep water 10'-20', but immediately let them go and they exhibited NO signs of swim problems. So does this only apply to fish taken from the lake and put into a livewell?

applies to fish that come up with over inflated swim bladders that are not released pretty much right. Brian Sak's article (linked above) states:

Bass will have the best chance at survival if you release them immediately, because the fish's physiology allows them to hold their bladder in for short periods of time - up to five minutes according to some studies. The stress of carrying bass around in a livewell all day, however, will result in a boat full of floating fish.

Note that "deep" is a relative term as well, more from Brians article on the Inside Line website:

The degree of injury to the bass you catch depends upon what depth they are acclimated to, with the extent of injury, with the effects generally increasing the deeper you go.

An important question often brought up when it comes to hurting bass is what depths are considered deep? There is no absolute answer because deep is relative to the body of water you're fishing. A bass caught from a creek channel at 10 feet is deep if the average depth of the lake is eight feet. The same fish, however, would be relatively shallow if it came from a reservoir averaging 100 feet.

This doesn't mean that bass caught from 10 feet in a deep reservoir will show no adverse effects. Fish that acclimate to 10 feet can still show signs of injury when brought to the surface, although they have a better chance at survival than those caught from 40 feet.

It's also important to consider that just because you're catching bass at 10 feet does not mean they are living at that depth. There is a vertical zone in which fish can comfortably migrate up and down without negative pressure effects. Bass can also make short runs out of that zone as long as they quickly get back to the depth they are acclimated to.

A bass living at 30 feet can swim up to 10 feet and back when making a meal out of a helpless baitfish wandering by. If that meal happens to be your lure, the bass will show the effects of being caught in water 30, rather than 10 feet deep.

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:25 am

I have had nearly a 100% success rate using this technique. As the swimm bladder fills, it pushes forward towards the stomach and gullet. This is the reason the fish puke their food up as they come up. Once I get them in the boat (if I am in a tournament) I put them in the livewell for about 10 15 minutes to get the bladder good & full. Holding the fish vertically by the lower lip, I find the area about 12 o' clock on the gullet and between the to crunchers and insert the needle until I hear the air escaping the bladder. Hold the fish and needle securely and put under the water of the livewell to watch the air come out. Once the air is out, remove the needle, and let the fish go in the livewell, treat with any good livewell aid. Here is the diagram I posted a few weeks ago, I hope this helps.

<img src="/shared/photos/photos/resized/3270_resized.jpg">

Scott Shambre
FOOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:44 am

SCOTT;
CAN FLOATING FISH IN YOUR LIVEWELL BE CONFUSSED FOR STRESED OR DYING FISH THAT ARE NOT BLOATED. I HAVE FOUND IN TOURNAMENT IN LIVE RELEASE TANKS, FISH FLOATING OR ON SIDES FLOATING, TRIED TO FIZZ, AND NO AIR COMES OUT AT ALL. I THINK IT WAS JUST SICK OR CLOSE TO DYING FISH THAT THEY ALSO FLOAT LIKE A BLOATED FISH. DO YOU THINK THIS TO BE TRUE ALSO ??

JIGS

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:00 am

This is turning into a good thread guys, glad to see all the participation

So I'll pose these questions:

1) should clubs and other tournament organizations consider a fizzing needle manditory equipment - something that the boat would be checked for having in their possession along with a livewell check, life jackets, etc - in tournaments prior to putting the boat in the water?

2) If the mortality rate is 100% for floating fish should the dead fish penalty be expanded to include non fizzed/distressed fish brought to a weigh in since they are as good as dead?

Personally I'd say yes to both

but arguing with myself: If yes to question #2 -> might be tough to identify "floating fish", but with the new DFG request that clubs only have 3 bags awaiting the scales at weigh in maybe it would be easier to have an observer check the livewell prior to pulling the fish out. Or, keep a higher water level initially in the weigh in sink so that when the fish are dumped in from the bag if they float right away then a penalty kicks in.

the overall intent is to keep as many fish alive and in the best shape possible when released.

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:16 am

At the Galaxy tournament 2 weeks ago, there was one largemouth that I popped, but this fish could not right itself to. This fish was alive, but was too weak to right itself and swim off. If you felt the bottom of the fishes mouth while lipping it, it was very squishy with almost no rigidity at all.

After working this fish for 45 minutes, I just had to stop my efforts and see what happened. Truth is that whoever weighed this fish caught it very early in the day out of deep water and did nothing to help that fish thru the day. Come weigh-in time and they bring the fish to me, yeah he needed to popped, but by that time it was too late. The fish was too stressed and couldn't be helped.

The fact of poppin'/fizzin' is that too many guys never think of it until they're in the weigh line and that is where we get so many dead or floaters near the ramp after a tournament. Whether it is fear of killing the fish thru inexperience with poppin' or the angler cares more about cashing a check than the condition of their catch, each of these are issues that EVERY angler fishing a tournament needs to address. Like I said to the anglers at the FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE last week.....

IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO CARE FOR YOUR FISH THAT YOU CATCH FROM DEEP WATER, YOU DO NOT BELONG OUT THERE FISHING FOR THEM, BEAT THE BANKS!!!!!!

I am very adamate about this topic and not enough of us know how to do this, but we can change that and how the public veiws tournaments.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:25 am

THANKS SCOTT; I , LIKE YOU WILL KEEP PREACHING IT AND PRACTICING IT.

Richard - Sonora · Post by **Richard - Sonora** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:24 am

Tried the MSN address - came back. I'm also in Sonora. Try me @
536-1642 , Richard in Sonora

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:14 am

SCOTT;

WHAT HAPPENS TO A BASS ONCE HIS AIR BLADDER HAS BEEN POPPED ? I HAVE FOUHND THEY HAVE TO STAY IN THE TOP FEW FEET OF WATER UNTIL BLADDER HEALS. LIKE PUNCHING HOLE IN BALOON, CAN NOT RIGHT THEMSELVES AT DEEPER DEPTHS UNTIL BLADDER IS HEALED, IS THIS CORRECT FINDING?

JIGS

CAUGHT 8 KEEPERS AT DON PEDRO YESTERDAY AND OUT OF 8, 6 WERE BLOATED, SO I RELIEVED 6 OF THEM. WITH THE NEW THRU THE MOUTH METHOD, I CAN SAY IT WORKS GREAT !

lionkiller · Post by **lionkiller** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:55 am

Had a chance to work the release boat with the CL Bassmasters at the Future Pro on Clear...I learned how to do this on Saturday, then got to fizz a couple dozen fish Sunday, using the through-the-mouth technique , which I'm told is easier on the bass. They make a tool- a hollow needle (like a 20 ga. hypo.) on a hollow plastic handle. Stick the fish high in the back of the throat, right between the 'crushers', you can feel a little tension, then a 'pop' as you go through the membrane...if it feels soft, you probably missed, - then submerge the fish. You can tell a hit -the air bubbles out the end of the tube. Don't let all the air out, or Mr. Bass will do a crash dive right to the bottom! They need a little air in there to keep their 'balance'.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:25 am

CRASH DIVE !! TYHAT EXPLAINS IT, I PRACTICED ON A COUPLE FISH YESTERDAY IN MY LIVE TANK AND FOUND THAT OUT, NORMALLY I WOULD FIX A FISH THRU THE SIDE AS IN THE PAST UNTIL BUBBLES STOPPED. YESTERDAY I FIZED THESE TWO FISH THRU THE MOUTH UNTIL THE BUBBLES STOPPED , AFTER WHICH I HATE TO SAY, PUT THE FISH ON THEIR SIDES IN THE BOTTOM OF THE LIVE WELL..........CONFUSSED ME TOTALLY !!

not4un · Post by **not4un** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:38 am

Where can you get the needle to do this?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:48 am

MOST TACKLE SHOPS, WE CARRY THEM HERE AT LAKE DON PEDRO
CHECK WITH C & C MARINE IN MODESTO, IF NOT, WE CAN SEND YOU ONE FROM HERE AT DON PEDRO

JIGS

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:43 pm

not4un wrote:Where can you get the needle to do this?

Vet supply, or farm supply store too

not4un · Post by **not4un** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:17 pm

Jigs what days you open I am having a house built in Don Pedro so I am always up there.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:40 pm

TUES, WED, THUR, FRI, SAT CLOSED SUN & MON. 7 AM TILL 5 PM.........THIS SAT AFTERNOON WE WILL BE AT NOR CAL CHAMPIONSHIP DINER AT ANGLES CAMP SO WILL CLOSE TOMORROW AT PROBABLY NOON !!

JIGS

snapitoff2002 · Post by **snapitoff2002** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:10 pm

What about people who fish 60-80 feet down, and the fish's eyes go all buggy? I don't think there is anything you can do about that is there?

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:33 pm

chris_hughes · Post by **chris_hughes** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:51 pm

At an ac semi pro at oroville a few weeks back we had I think 3-4 floating fish at the ramp with a lot of people that weren't bass fisherman also noticed these floating fish. Most of the fish were caught deep I'm guessing as ours were that day, I got in the water and got the fish which all but 1 were still alive and needed to be popped, Mike popped the fish and got them back into the water. The other one was over 15" so someone took it home. My question is what happens at lakes like oroville when the slot limit is in affect, you catch a 14" fish it dies some how through the day, you can't legally keep it and it looks bad on us tournament fisherman to throw a dead fish back in the water. What would you guys do? I got the fish out of the water in the first place because somehow with all effort we put into helping bass out if we happen to kill one and people see it they think were the bad guys. Out of sight out of mind, personally I'd rather see someone keep a 14" fish that has died even if it is against the slot rule, than have to put a dead fish back in the water and have all the people who saw the fish tell someone how the bass fisherman killed a bass.

Chris

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:53 pm

garbage can? dunno.... good question

Hipster · Post by **Hipster** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:59 pm

Remember Folks!!! it is not just fish that you caught deep!!

You may catch a fish in a foot of water but that fish may have just moved up from 20 feet to feed!! Those spots are notorious for this especially the bigger ones you catch first thing in the morning!!

Mark