dead fish rule

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:15 am

Your in a tournament with NO cull Dead fish rule, ( the no dead fish cull rule was left out of the official rules)

do you cull the fish or do you go old school and keep the dead fish

this is a ethics issue

me I would keep the dead fish, what would you do?

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:57 am

You Must keep the fish!

ns nitro · Post by **ns nitro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:03 am

Keep it bro!!! Carma is a B*#@H!!!! Nate

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:09 am

I have never heard of an organization that allows culling of dead fish.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:37 am

I think, that DFG does not allow the release of Dead fish and those the Tournament Org doesn't have to explictly state that.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:45 am

I say man up and eat it before weigh in. Solves the No-cull rule and the number of fish in the live well.

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:49 am

Good point.

Scott wrote:I think, that DFG does not allow the release of dead fish and the Tournament Org doesn't have to explicitly state that.

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:33 am

breakout the wasabe! while eating lunch deadstick a thin senko or a ..... GET THE NET!!!!

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:43 am

Read the WON bass rules its very sketchy... you can take those rules either way. does not mention dead fish at all.

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:20 am

J10b hit it right on the head,
most orgs do not have a dead bass no cull rule, but I was taught the proper way and BASS rules at one time stated; a no dead fish cull rule, again this is a ethics issue and most organzations feel the state rule are enough, this is not so! alot of new beginers need to be taught the right way from the beginning, if you teach the right way from the start, 99% of the time; ten years from now they will be teaching the same thing (the right way) to the next genaration of beginners.

Chime in folks, I would love to here your two cents.

Alex M. · Post by **Alex M.** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:31 am

Thats all fine and dandy.....and I would personally keep the dead fish....I'm a firm believer in Karma and stick to my code of ethics.
But...Lemme ask you guys a hypothetical question....

Lets say you have (5) 2Lbers in the livewell. Then you catch your 6th fish of the day...a healthy 7Lber...Wooo Hoooo! You open the lid to your livewell to put the big fish in there, and to your dismay, you've got a floater. What do you....I mean.....HONESTLY what do you do? And remember...According to most of you, the rulebook doesn't state anything in specific about culling a dead fish.....

I'm all ears....

Alex

JohNNy Utah · Post by **JohNNy Utah** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:32 am

How do you release a dead fish?
If that thing dies in your live well........guess what, you're weighing that fish.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:33 am

Just checked the 07-08 Inland Fishing Regulations, as well as the WON BASS rules, and neither makes any mention of culling dead fish. I've seen enough floaters in some tournaments to question whether there should be specific verbiage addressing that situation, as I'm sure many will argue it's not the proper thing to do, while others will argue that it's permissible since it isn't written in the rules.

Roger

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:55 am

I have actually had that happen, fishing the delta I caught a 3 pounder the first fish of the day and the next four fish were all over or right at five pounds, the sixth fish came in the boat and it was a 5 1/2 I am like woo hoo ! cull that 3 pounder, to make a long story short the 3 pounder was dead (know idea why)and I ended up culling a 4.98 (next smallest fish) I keep the 3 pounder

I also beleave in good carma ---becasue I had over 20 pounds and the WIN from the back seat ( never went to the frount deck all day) in a federation tournament.

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:02 am

Gents,

While it is true that the WON BASS rules do not specifically state that dead fish may not be culled, I consider it as common sense that this is a violation of WON BASS rule #3

Sportsmanship - The laws of sportsmanship and good judgement as well as courtesy towards others on and off the water shall be adhered to at all times.

There are many things that are not in the WON BASS rules that are common sense. You cannot shoot a rifle at a competitor nor may you fire a shoulder launched missle at the first boat out of the first flight. This should be common sense.

If we were to develop a set of rules that would cover every possible contingency, it would be the size of a Las Vegas phone book. I would certainly hope that every angler who competed at the team or professional level would be enough of a sportsman to abide by the laws of common sense.

Has anyone ever culled a dead fish in the past? I'm sure it has happened. If anyone has ever learned anything, it is that you cannot legislate away stupid acts committed by humans.

Speaking as the WON BASS director, should I find that any competitor during a WON BASS event is culling dead fish, I will DQ them for that day of the tournament.

Bill Hutcheson
WON BASS

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:28 am

well said Hutch, and I agree too a point; as a experianced angler.

you could spend all day what IF ing the rules, but the new anglers have to learn and where do they learn from the most and the quickest -- The rules-- most new anglers too tournament fishing are intimadated by a bunch of people they dont know, and for the first couple of months; they spend just getting to know people and then finally working up the nerve to ask questions it mostly on how to improve thier own personal catchs, a lot of time it could be a year or more before the ask or over here a group of angers discussing an ethics issue.

Hutch please understand this is not directed to any one tournament org this is for all: old and new to learn from and insure we as a dedicated group teach those who need and want to learn, the right way the first time

walt

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:05 pm

Tournament organizations and directors usually state that they do not allow, promote, engage in, any activity which will cause a competitor to break state laws.

Fish Culling during Black Bass Tournaments

Section 1.17. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources, Bag and Possession Limit, provides that no more than one daily bag limit of each kind of fish, amphibian, reptile, mollusk or crustacean named in these regulations may be taken or possessed by any one person unless otherwise authorized; regardless of whether they are fresh, frozen, or otherwise preserved.

Additionally, Section 1.80. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources, defines "Take" as to hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill fish, amphibians, reptiles, mollusks, crustaceans or invertebrates or attempting to do so.

California Sport Fishing Regulations provide that anglers may take up to five bass per day when fishing; and fishing contest permit regulations provide that "insofar as possible; all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition".

Section 230 of Title 14 contains new regulations adopted by the Fish and Game Commission which became effective September 22, 2005.

Section 230 (1)states: "No provisions of these regulations exempt any participant in a contest from the sport fishing regulations, except that the department may, for permitted contests, authorize an exemption to:

(A) Regulations which impose an increased minimum size limit larger than 12 inches, a slot size limit, or a reduced bag limit less than five fish for Type A contests, and; B) Daily bag and possession limits for all permitted black bass contests, insofar that once the daily bag and possession limit has been reached by an individual angler, that same angler may continue to fish under the condition that each additional fish caught must immediately be returned to the water alive and in good condition, or be used to replace a fish being maintained alive and in good condition from the participant's livewell or other suitable holding facility."

Note that Section 230 (B) applies to all permitted black bass contests while Section 230 (A) applies only to Type A ('Event') contest permits for which the exemption has been authorized.

Information regarding Zero (0) bag limits

Section 7.00. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources District General Regulations; provides that in waters where the bag limit for trout or salmon is zero, fish for which the bag limit is zero must be released unharmed, and should not be removed from the water.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:18 pm

I agree too Hutch and having been put in that situation once my partner and I did NOT cull, we basically practiced the rest of the day. However I did mention it to others and it was about 70/30 in favor of culling the dead fish. As the rules didnt specifically dictate no dead culling. When I read the rules, At the time they read similar to the WON rules, we took it as NO CULL. So we didnt. Ended up costing us over 2000$ but we can sleep at night.

Believe me when you have big $$ on the line it could make it easier to cross that line. I have had in the first year or so of fishing on the back of the boat most of the " iffy " situations. Both my pro and myself discussed and did the right thing. Even when $$ is on the line for the guy in the back and you know where fish are you have to keep your mouth shut.

Trouble is I have seen guys crossing the lines, just in the gray, but still. In just about every tournament i have seen poaching of spots, b/c of Co_angler info to guys just being jerks.

I think that the Co-Angler should be DQed if he/she is the reason for the poaching. There is no reason to DQ a pro that didnt know he was receiving poached info. Lots of Cos/aaas pre fish and if my AAA told me he had a spot I would think it was his. Of course I'd query but still. I think that a rule should be made to address this issue.
I have a perfect case in my experience where the pro had his hands tied... how do you DQ a pro that didnt know he was fishing another guys spot? The Co/AAA knew and told the pro where to go.

I know i'd have a hard time DQing an innocent pro because of a lying Co.

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:24 pm

Drew,

Thanks for the DFG Title 14 research. I was pretty sure this all existed, however other pressing issues kept me from doing the research here at work.

I think you may have misspoke in saying the TD's condone rule breaking. I think you meant to say that TD's do not want you to break existing DFG rules? Please let me know if I am wrong as I will vehemently deny promoting or knowingly engaging in anything contrary to Federal, State, or local laws.

While it is true that many people getting into fishing will use basic rules to educate themselves on different circuits and thier policies, I still believe that using good judgement and common sense will prevent most anglers from going over the line when it comes to the rules.

My wife works for a fortune 500 company and is attending a General Managers College. I have been helping her study to pass this final exam and I am actually impressed by the answer to one of the ethics questions presented. The question is how do you know if what you are doing conforms to company ethical standards? The answer is four part

1) How does your action make you feel?
2) How would others feel about your action?
3) How would you feel if your action was printed in the paper?
4) How would you feel if the same action happened to you as a customer?

Now, I am not trying to get on any Golden Rule high horse here, but it seems to me that this answer should pretty well apply to most things in life.

Any angler new to Bass fishing or angler who has a question regarding the rules is free to contact me at any time for an answer or clarification of any of the WON BASS rules.

Bill Hutcheson
WON BASS
(949) 366-0030 ext 29

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:29 pm

thats what I find a lot of the guys I have fished with doing. The $$$ and trophy arent worth it. Noone can tell me it hasnt ever crossed their minds. You just dont do it.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:36 pm

And I just want to be clear that I was not stating that I condone the culling of dead fish, rather was addressing the previous comments. I also am not picking on WON BASS, it is just the organization that I'm most familiar and participate with.

I hadn't seen the Code of Regulations previously - is that distributed? I get the sportfishing regulations each year, but don't remember seeing that along side?

Good pull Andy. Also, good input Bill (as usual).

Roger

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:12 pm

I recently had two fish care penalties in the TopStick TOC. It was caused by a mechanical failure on a brand new loaner boat. The damage was more then just the lost weight, physiologically it knocked the wind out of our sails. To make it worse it was our two smallest fish.

I would rather finish in last place then cheat to win.

tunaman wrote:And I just want to be clear that I was not stating that I condone the culling of dead fish, rather was addressing the previous comments. I also am not picking on WON BASS, it is just the organization that I'm most familiar and participate with.

I hadn't seen the Code of Regulations previously - is that distributed? I get the sportfishing regulations each year, but don't remember seeing that along side?

Good pull Andy. Also, good input Bill (as usual).

Roger

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:43 pm

Gentalmen; all and well said
from time to time I will throw other ethics questions up on the web site, as a learning tool for all involved.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:53 pm

Excellent use of the board... thanks JR!

Roger

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:02 pm

Monster Tackle.com. My oh my, this should be a big seller. heheh.

Here is another big seller for Jet Skis.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWire/U ... llent.html

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:34 pm

My bad, it was a mistake, I have corrected my post.

Bill Hutcheson wrote:Drew,
I think you may have misspoke in saying the TD's condone rule breaking. I think you meant to say that TD's do not want you to break existing DFG rules? Please let me know if I am wrong as I will vehemently deny promoting or knowingly engaging in anything contrary to Federal, State, or local laws.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:47 pm

Bill,
That's kinda how I taught my kids how to decide if something is okay.
My rule of thumb for them was to ask themselves, "Is this something I'd be proud to tell my Grandma I did?". That seemed to put it all into perspective for them.
They're no saints, but they are responsible adults today.
Man, if the folks at AIG, or Lehman Bros, or any of the other corporations that are involved in this sub-prime mortgage diasaster had bothered to stop and think about that for a minute.....
We all know if something feels wrong. We may not know exactly why it's wrong, but our gut tells us, just the same.

Bill Hutcheson wrote:Drew,

Thanks for the DFG Title 14 research. I was pretty sure this all existed, however other pressing issues kept me from doing the research here at work.

I think you may have misspoke in saying the TD's condone rule breaking. I think you meant to say that TD's do not want you to break existing DFG rules? Please let me know if I am wrong as I will vehemently deny promoting or knowingly engaging in anything contrary to Federal, State, or local laws.

While it is true that many people getting into fishing will use basic rules to educate themselves on different circuits and thier policies, I still believe that using good judgement and common sense will prevent most anglers from going over the line when it comes to the rules.

My wife works for a fortune 500 company and is attending a General Managers College. I have been helping her study to pass this final exam and I am actually impressed by the answer to one of the ethics questions presented. The question is how do you know if what you are doing conforms to company ethical standards? The answer is four part

1) How does your action make you feel?
2) How would others feel about your action?
3) How would you feel if your action was printed in the paper?
4) How would you feel if the same action happened to you as a customer?

Now, I am not trying to get on any Golden Rule high horse here, but it seems to me that this answer should pretty well apply to most things in life.

Any angler new to Bass fishing or angler who has a question regarding the rules is free to contact me at any time for an answer or clarification of any of the WON BASS rules.

Bill Hutcheson
WON BASS
(949) 366-0030 ext 29

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:51 pm

While you guy's are on the web site during company time cheating your company of time they pay you for I was at work and want to say that you should keep the dead fish and not cull it, bad ethics. Now does ethics only pertain to tournament day but not while at work? You all are fired, fired, fired!!!! Get back to work, and great thread!!

Guy Williams

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:56 pm

Brian,

So that's the new ROBO Rocket that was written up in the most recent issue of Bass Anglers Guide. I noticed the Moorpark, CA address on the side of the launch tube, so I guessed it must have been a ROBO product. Does it come in a 5 pack or a 7 pack and how soon until Anglers Marine gets them in stock?

Will they be featured at this years "Bass A Thon"

Will there be a new KVD model "Kill - Victimize - Destroy"

I'd sure love to have a few of those for "recreational purposes" from time to time........

Hutch

CN · Post by CN » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:57 pm

Guy Williams wrote:While you guy's are on the web site during company time cheating your company of time they pay you for I was at work and want to say that you should keep the dead fish and not cull it, bad ethics. Now does ethics only pertain to tournament day but not while at work? You all are fired, fired, fired!!!! Get back to work, and great thread!!
Guy Williams

Cant bring myself to fire myself I need the money

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Guy you make me laugh your so bad. thanks DAD

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:42 pm

thats why they made a needle fiz all the air out the fish will sink like a rock and the catfish will get a full stomach

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:25 pm

We all know that you cannot "cull" a dead fish!!! What i hate is when people release these dead fish back into the water floating near the tourny site it really makes us fisherman and the Org. look bad to all of the spectators!!!
LS

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:27 pm

longshot wrote:We all know that you cannot "cull" a dead fish!!! What i hate is when people release these dead fish back into the water floating near the tourny site it really makes us fisherman and the Org. look bad to all of the spectators!!!
LS

know is different than practice. Believe me I fished a tourny back east where a guy tried for 4 hours to talk me into culling dead fish. Wasnt the first time either.

smittyfish · Post by **smittyfish** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:04 pm

So if you are fishing a tournament and have a small limit and then you have livewell problems and all your fish die, are you done fishing for the day?

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:35 pm

yup happened to me and another kicka$$ angler. We ate a penalty and about 2k+ in winnings

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:22 am

Guy,

Once again, you slay me

It is my job as a Tournament Director to respond to anglers questions as they pertain to tournament fishing - especially when they involve questions regarding the WON BASS circuit for which I am responsible. The post was directed at dead fish culling and my response was to clarify WON BASS rules which were brought into question. Hence, I am doing the job for which I am paid.

As such, I am going to assume that your post was not pointed in my direction.

Hutch
WON BASS

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:07 pm

Guy I am not going to defend my actions I was plan just screwing off on company time.

CN · Post by CN » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:45 pm

Wow talk about catch and release.

What situation could you possible be in to throw a dead fish back to win a Tournament.

Mike Nance

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:47 pm

Don't worry Hutch and anyone else, I'm just jealous!! But now as I think of it Hutch, didn't you come to the site before you seen the thread? Bad Hutch!!!! You know I'm just casting a swimbait your way!! Some are like the easy bed fish everyone in the lake catches and some are the bass everyone see's but never get them to bite. See you Thursday Hutch, I'll bring the catch and release for your drink!!

Guy Williams

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:23 am

Catch & Release is O.K.

Just don't fizz me with a needle!

Glad to hear that your wife is doing O.K. I hope she has a speedy recovery. See you at Havasu.

Hutch
WON BASS

P.S. I am off work today, so this message is fully sanctioned and approved by WON BASS, Bill Hutcheson, Heidi Montag, and my dog Harley!

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:27 am

STAY AWAY FROM HEIDI!! The only reason i ever Tivod the Hills.

Thank god its Friday. I can't wait to go out tonight.

Tags

Notice